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The hidden mysteries !

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
You know, the half lizard half human masters. Isn't there any in your lodge ?

If so they are keeping it from their fellow lodge members. Maybe their true identities are known only to the Shriners and those that hold the 33rd degree!

Yes. Yes we are keeping the lizard-half men secretly hidden with the herd of goats.

Dang it! You've figured it all out now... but now you've got to cross the "hot sands" to know for sure.


Stewart M. Owings, 32 °, P∴ M∴
Lead Moderator
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
That was in the new Grand Lodge of London and Westminster.

A few years later the new GL had the Noah 3rd degree but that was immediately replaced by the Hiram 3rd degree - a new ancient landmark.

How was the first version so wrong?

Who devised the second version? In which lodge do we first see the second 3rd degree?
So lets get this back on track before it too gets shut down......
James do you have an answer for these questions? I dont. My opinion would be that nothing was wrong with the Noah 3rd but it was "masonic" themed. Noah was a builder but he built a boat of wood not a structure of stone. If the organization was the FreeCarpenters then that story would be perfect.

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Elexir

Registered User
Noah being raised by his sons might well be a copy of Asar (Osiris) being raised by his son Horus (the lord of life). This legend has a parallel in Lazarus being raised by Jesus

Then there really is no change.
Other then that the rituals become more in tune.
 

Brother_Steve

Premium Member
It's a secret.
Dragnet0.jpg
 

BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
Coach, a great blog about the highest degree in Masonry.

There's a bit of confusion in the Temple though. Are you saying that the Master Mason is a rank and not the last & sublime degree of our Craft system?

I understand your historical lesson that prior to the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, there's a strong likelihood that there was just a two degree system, EA & FC. The MM does appear as an innovation. It's sort of gloss or something added to the picture for whatever purposes these men had but never fully explained and understood by future generations.

Our system seems to have been complete with only the 2 degrees. In fact, the FC degree meshes well the Mark Master account without the necessity of the MM degree. However the MM doesn't naturally blend in except maybe with the introduction of the final working tool, the Trowel.

It's explained that only MMs are given a trowel.

But anyways, i'm understanding where you're coming from historically. But i'm not sure if i can agree with you that after all this time, we should not still consider the MM degree as the final & highest?
 

BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
Well the trowel isnt the MM tool in foreign jurisdictions....its the pencil and skerrit and another one that im blanking on....so again an invention......



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You're correct and i state this not as a catch all for all jurisdictions. Only using my own as the frame of reference.

We can agree that the trowel is indeed a post 1717 invention.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Coach, a great blog about the highest degree in Masonry.
Thanks! It sure was fun researching and putting it together.
There's a bit of confusion in the Temple though. Are you saying that the Master Mason is a rank and not the last & sublime degree of our Craft system?
Yes. That is exactly what I implied. If the FC did the work that he was supposed to do, as spelled out within the dominant Preston-Webb Ritual practiced within the USA , then the MM Degree becomes a celebration of what the FC has Achieved and the FC comes into the Degree as "The Master's Word".

As it is now, it is a degree bestowing unearned rank where a substitute is provided because the candidate is not "The Master's Word" and he hasn't a clue as to what the Ritual is intended to point out: He is a Ruffian.
I understand your historical lesson that prior to the formation of the Grand Lodge of England, there's a strong likelihood that there was just a two degree system, EA & FC.
Thanks!
The MM does appear as an innovation.
I'm glad that you see this too.
It's sort of gloss or something added to the picture for whatever purposes these men had but never fully explained and understood by future generations.
Yes! See previous comments about "He is a Ruffian."
Our system seems to have been complete with only the 2 degrees.
Agreed!
In fact, the FC degree meshes well the Mark Master account without the necessity of the MM degree.
The breadcrumb trail is definitely thick with clues! Unfortunately, very few see it and even fewer follow it.
However the MM doesn't naturally blend in except maybe with the introduction of the final working tool, the Trowel. It's explained that only MMs are given a trowel.
This is where I want to scream, "Wake Up!", but I won't and I'll let you just image that I did.

Apprentices and Fellows of the Craft used/use the Trowel.; they HAD/HAVE TO! The MM Degree is "Symbolic". In practice, ALL levels used ALL the Working Tools. How else were/are each of our Craftsmen going to Learn the Craft???? Explain, Show, Do!
But anyways, i'm understanding where you're coming from historically.
Good!
But i'm not sure if i can agree with you that after all this time, we should not still consider the MM degree as the final & highest?
You could ageree, but it would require you to step back, remember that these degrees are all " symbolic" and use common sense.
 
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jermy Bell

Registered User
The 3rd degree was added in the 1700's. Not sure how it came to be, but what was the highest degree (?) Before the 3rd was added. I still can not find any information on this.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
The 3rd degree was added in the 1700's. Not sure how it came to be, but what was the highest degree (?) Before the 3rd was added.
The Entered Apprentice Prime Degree. The "Master's Part" was ritual that bestowed the rank of Fellow Craft to a member who would assume the role of Lodge Master.
I still can not find any information on this.
View the following video between times 10:00 and 23:00 to get the skinny on the light you seek: http://www.molor.org/trumanlectureseries#spring2012

Then read through this link and its supporting links: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html

and then read through this as well, with supporting links: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

Enjoy the Light Bro.!

F&S,

Coach
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I rather think that the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster did not know very much.
<sigh> Rather than what? Think that they were making it up as they went along?
As I recall reading, in 1719 the Grand Master complained that Irish Masons were burning written materials so that the new GL would not have them. The GM said that this was an irretrievable loss. It seems that this was so.
Or that this too was made up to further establish credibility where there was none.
And of course the question then arises whether the Masonic knowledge of the Irish Masons survived.
Assuming that any Irish Masonic knowledge surviving would have anything to do with our Freemasonic plays?
 

BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
I rather think that the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster did not know very much. As I recall reading, in 1719 the Grand Master complained that Irish Masons were burning written materials so that the new GL would not have them. The GM said that this was an irretrievable loss. It seems that this was so.

And of course the question then arises whether the Masonic knowledge of the Irish Masons survived.
Are you referring to GM Payne of the new GL of England? Where did you read about his complaint of Irish Masons burning materials?

It would be something i'd like to check out because I have a hunch that it was probably the GL of England bunch themselves who might have destroyed or suppressed many written records which existed prior to 1717.

I had told a Brother about this suspicion of mine. He indulged me with his attentive ear. Responded that it's plausible and possible that the new Grand Lodge would have wanted to secure their organization as the first ever organized GL system in world history by erasing all past records. Pretty much just like the early Orthodox & Roman churches did in prior centuries.
 
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