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The Philosophy of "Making Good Men Better"

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
It is easy to become obsessed with a billion explanations of our symbols.
Only when you are not doing the Work. When you do the Work, you tend to filter out a lot of BS fairly quickly.
The craftsman should reflect on his teachings and works.
Yeah, in an ideal world. But, as you might have gathered, Freemasonry doesn't support this.
The deeper meanings will occur to you more over time and with practiced reflection.
LOL! Not if the light's on and no one's home. I know members who have gone to their graves buying into this "stuff" you shared never getting deeper than the rubbish that's shoved their way by others. Deeper meaning comes with Work, not time.
In the end, we are but a copy made in an image.
I call shenanigans! Who is this "we"? It sounds all warm and goey, but it's not sticking to the wall.
And our teachings are to practice this image.
Who is this "our" of which you speak? I have yet to actually practice anything that was actual provided Freemasonic teachings. All of it is training. There's a huge difference.
It is a sacred truth that if you are a copy; then the one true form exists.
Copy? Sacred Truth? One True Form?
We are rough longing to be perfect ...
Who is this "We" and how are you defining "perfect"?
...and by the symbolism of the dialogue the allegory teachings are a prophecy to us that the perfect one does exist.
Gees! Could I please get a small hint of what you are smokin'?
 

Bloke

Premium Member
( Hey Coach, you will like this one...a while back in here there was some lovely story or post or something, and we're (including me) all replying with approval; sorry, can't remember details but Freemasonry(Masonry in nod to you) was the hero. You made some comment, not inappropriate but slightly not like the rest, and I realised, we were all being very sentimental while you were being VERY rationalist... just thought I'd let you know in the hope you might take that as a complement.... i'm starting to see it as a divide within Freemasonry ( like and other "divide", skin colour, religion, wealth, politics etcetera ) but still just part of our tapestry)
 

88DAM88

Registered User
I find that we should be concerned with quality not quantity when it comes to Lodge membership. We should guard that West Gate closely. We should be a fraternity striving to "make good men better." not make men good men. I feel that there one should be at a certain level of character and spirit before even being considered. I like this paraphrased text from an article by L. Vallejos in Elephant Journal. We should be looking for good men to bring in, not collecting dues from nice guys:
____________________________________________________________

Are you a Nice Guy or a Good Man?

If that seems like an odd question, bear with me for a moment, because there is a distinct difference between the two.

A nice guy will tell a pretty lie to avoid the discomfort of telling an ugly truth.
A good man will deliver the truth, however unpleasant, because his integrity will not let him deceive anyone for his own comfort.

A nice guy will do nice things with unspoken expectations attached. He will take a woman on a date, expecting to get something in return.
A good man does things without expectation of a payoff, but because he is acting in accordance with his core values. Should he receive a return—it’s simply a bonus.

A nice guy is worried about his reputation, but a good man is only concerned with his character.

A nice guy fears rejection and so he seeks validation.
A good man is self-validated and does not tie his worth to whether he is accepted or rejected.

A nice guy will cloak his intentions and be unclear, while a good man will be upfront with his intentions and be very clear about his aim.
The good man leaves no space for ambiguity.

A nice guy will have loose boundaries and will bend over backwards just to seem nice. A good man has clear boundaries and, thus, earns the respect of the people around him.

A nice guy will smother his current love interest and will make her the center of his universe.
A good man will give appropriate attention to a lover without becoming overbearing or taking over her life.

A nice guy will blame others, circumstances, or fate for his lot in life.
A good man recognizes his role in whatever has transpired, takes responsibility and, when necessary, redirects his course.

A nice guy will make lofty promises to look good.
A good man will only make the promises he knows he can keep.

A nice guy wants to play the knight in shining armor, but is quick to disappear when sh*t gets real.
A good man knows it’s not his job to rescue anyone but will show up and have your back when needed.

A nice guy will discard anything and anyone that is no longer useful to him.
A good man will respect another persons’ inherent dignity and treat them kindly even when they no longer have a role or purpose in his life-plan.

A nice guy lacks leadership abilities and is content to let others guide his life.
A good man takes charge of his life and becomes the master of his own fate.

A nice guy will do anything to avoid hurting someone’s feelings.
A good man realizes that sometimes, the kindest thing one can do for another may initially be hurtful, but will eventually be helpful.

A nice guy will say what others want to hear.
A good man will say what others need to hear.

A nice guy won’t apologize even when he’s wrong because he thinks it makes him weak.
A good man is quick with apologies and even faster with reparations.

A nice guy lives in service of himself and his desires.
A good man lives in service of humanity.

At the core, the major difference between a nice guy and a good man is that a nice guy is concerned with appearances and etiquette.
The good man is concerned with character and morality.

The nice guy takes the easy road.
The good man is committed to his development and is willing to do the work to become a better man.
The good man realizes that he is not going to get there by taking shortcuts, in life, business, or relationships.

The good man will do the work, and reap the benefits.
A nice guy looks on in envy.

If you’re a nice guy, it’s okay. You can become a good man.

Start by speaking your truth, owning your life and choices, and start living for a higher purpose.

Start making decisions that align with being a good man. Change your approach to living.

If you’re a good man—thank you. The world needs more of you.
 
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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
( Hey Coach, you will like this one...a while back in here there was some lovely story or post or something, and we're (including me) all replying with approval; sorry, can't remember details but Freemasonry(Masonry in nod to you) was the hero. You made some comment, not inappropriate but slightly not like the rest, and I realised, we were all being very sentimental while you were being VERY rationalist... just thought I'd let you know in the hope you might take that as a complement.... i'm starting to see it as a divide within Freemasonry ( like and other "divide", skin colour, religion, wealth, politics etcetera ) but still just part of our tapestry)
Just saw this. AWESOME! Thank You! (and KUDOS!)
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
I know I'm a bit late to this party, but as I recently presented a paper on exactly this topic, I couldn't help but add on. Most of the paper discussed our teachings a little too in depth for me to post here, but one of the conclusions I came to was the Freemasonry does NOT make good men better. Rather, it gives good men the tools to make themselves better.
 

jermy Bell

Registered User
I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work. This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?
 

Bloke

Premium Member
I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work. This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?
I guess my responds would be something about self-discipline and understand Freemasonry by learning its ritual..... but there are many paths to being a good Freemason, some of the best ones I know are not really interested in ritual, but they live it's messages.
 

Pointwithinacircle3

Registered User
Learning the ritual and the floor work will perpetuate the the system. While perpetuating the system a man may (or may not) become a better man. It makes me wonder, how shall we define "a good man"? Is there an objective standard or does each man set his own standard? Is becoming a good man something a man can do on his own or does it require (or possibly, is it made easier by) interaction with other men?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I'm' still curious on this one., all I'm ever told is go to these schools we put on, you need to learn the rod, and floor work. This will make me a better man and mason ? You need to come to these schools we put on and learn ritual, and learn the lectures. This will make me a better man and a mason ? (The famously deer in the head light look) so, how does one explain to a new brother how to be a better man and a mason, when we can' get past ritual and floor work ?
https://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-road-map-talk-what-candidates.html
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
The lessons you were given during the degrees contain the tools you need. The floorwork is to pass those lessons on to the next candidates.
I wish I could like this more than once.

I think what frustrates me is the amount of emphasis placed on the floorwork. In my opinion, this is done by those who are either unwilling or unable to grasp or work on the lessons taught in the ritual and therefore focus on that minutia of the exoteric work they CAN grasp. We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture. 15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist. And I've never heard a word spoken about the symbolism of the tools aside from whether they can get the words of the lecture right.

Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.
Very true!
We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture. 15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist.
I would have gotten up and walked out. I refuse to waste my time on such foolishness.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
@hanzosbm No offense to your GL but that is ridiculous! This is exactly the sort of thing that drives the newer members away.
No no, by all means, LOTS of offense to them. I'm just thankful that this happened in the officers' school of instruction so that only the officers were forced to endure this. Most of us can simply roll our eyes and smile till the clock runs out. I can't imagine what this might do to the average brother. I don't make a great secret of my dislike for the bureaucracy of Grand Lodge. The really sad part is, just like any form of politics, only someone willing to immerse themselves in all of the political BS would be able to rise to a position capable of making meaningful changes. Sadly, the kind of people who have the desire to make those changes wouldn't be able to stand all of the politicking long enough to reach those levels. Myself included.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
“For as to what we have heard you affirm, that there are other kingdoms and states in the world inhabited by human creatures as large as yourself, our philosophers are in much doubt, and would rather conjecture that you dropped from the moon, or one of the stars; because it is certain, that a hundred mortals of your bulk would in a short time destroy all the fruits and cattle of his majesty’s dominions: besides, our histories of six thousand moons make no mention of any other regions than the two great empires of Lilliput and Blefuscu. Which two mighty powers have, as I was going to tell you, been engaged in a most obstinate war for six-and-thirty moons past. It began upon the following occasion. It is allowed on all hands, that the primitive way of breaking eggs, before we eat them, was upon the larger end; but his present majesty’s grandfather, while he was a boy, going to eat an egg, and breaking it according to the ancient practice, happened to cut one of his fingers. Whereupon the emperor his father published an edict, commanding all his subjects, upon great penalties, to break the smaller end of their eggs. The people so highly resented this law, that our histories tell us, there have been six rebellions raised on that account; wherein one emperor lost his life, and another his crown. These civil commotions were constantly fomented by the monarchs of Blefuscu; and when they were quelled, the exiles always fled for refuge to that empire. It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death, rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end. Many hundred large volumes have been published upon this controversy: but the books of the Big-endians have been long forbidden, and the whole party rendered incapable by law of holding employments. During the course of these troubles, the emperors of Blefusca did frequently expostulate by their ambassadors, accusing us of making a schism in religion, by offending against a fundamental doctrine of our great prophet Lustrog, in the fifty-fourth chapter of the Blundecral (which is their Alcoran). This, however, is thought to be a mere strain upon the text; for the words are these: ‘that all true believers break their eggs at the convenient end.’ And which is the convenient end, seems, in my humble opinion to be left to every man’s conscience, or at least in the power of the chief magistrate to determine.”
Jonathan Swift, Gulliver's Travels
 

Bloke

Premium Member
I wish I could like this more than once.

I think what frustrates me is the amount of emphasis placed on the floorwork. In my opinion, this is done by those who are either unwilling or unable to grasp or work on the lessons taught in the ritual and therefore focus on that minutia of the exoteric work they CAN grasp. We recently had a 15 minute argument among 60 officers of our district on whether the common gavel ought to be held vertically or at a 45 degree angle while giving the tools lecture. 15 minutes (I timed it) heatedly arguing about the slight turn of the wrist. And I've never heard a word spoken about the symbolism of the tools aside from whether they can get the words of the lecture right.

Learning the degrees is important to be able to pass them along, but in order to improve oneself, it requires contemplation on the lessons taught within them, and then, once the lessons are understood, the real work of putting those lessons into practice begins.
The argument on the gavel is dumb, it makes no difference to the lesson received. I often say, Freemasons often approach ceremonial like an occultist trying to cast a spell, every thing must be done right or it wont work. We're not doing that in lodge, we're teaching and learning (including those delivering the work), whether you hold the gavel at a certain angle, or indeed if you even hold it is immaterial compared to delivering the lessons. That said, I run the floor work in my lodge and do have a strong interest in getting everything as close to perfect as possible. A man only gets to do a degree once, so its important we do the best job we can, and as these skills and knowledge generally prove accumulative, it also means working hard polishes the stone. However, it is much better to see a MM having a go than an experienced Past Master working in perfection and showing off; we need to keep developing the next generation and that means mistakes will be made - which is fine, as long as everyone is trying. But that gavel discussion, that's trying in a very different kind of way !
 
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