Time from initiation to raising

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by jfree7997, May 24, 2015.

  1. jfree7997

    jfree7997 Registered User

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    Curious is it possible to go from initiation to raising in 4 months or less without a book or "live in teacher"?
     
  2. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Yes. Depending on the jurisdiction time limits to the next degree. Someone could have a photographic memory for one thing. Not every jurisdiction is mouth to ear for another. The lodge might be another issue, some schedule degrees more quickly than others. There are many variables that could come into play.
     
  3. dalinkou

    dalinkou Premium Member

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    I've seen it done. The only way this guy could have been faster is a one-day class event. I remember seeing him in lodge exactly three times....EA, FC, MM, and to this day I haven't seen him ever again.
     
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  4. HumbleTXMason

    HumbleTXMason Premium Member

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    @dalinkou

    wow... that is sad. Have y'all reach out to him to see what happened? I mean, after all that effort, did he just burned out?

    @jfree7997
    yes, it is possible I guess... but just curious how the student is going to learn without a teacher (or a book)?
     
  5. Pscyclepath

    Pscyclepath Premium Member

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    Me, initiated 2/11/2012, passed 3/15/2012, raised 4/12/2012, a total of 61 days. Pretty quick, but then I didn't miss very many study sessions and was diligent about learning the lectures.

    You are pretty much the limiting factor. you mest learn and turn in your proficiency lectures for the EA and FC before you can receive the next degree, and in many jurisdictions it's required to lay over one month between degrees. I turned my lectures in at the very next meeting after the degree, so was able to scoot on through in minimum time. And we are a mouth-to-ear jurisdiction, so you learn from a lecturer...
     
  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    It's somewhat common WITH a book or live teacher. Of course it is best with a live teacher. There are tales of brothers who did their degrees a month or even a week apart and delivered both the questions and answers for their proficiencies. Usually the tales are about the skills of a professional actor but sometimes about a brother who happens to have had an in born talent for memorization.

    Not sure how it could be done without a book or live teacher except by someone with an in born talent for memorization. More importantly I'm not sure why it would be considered beneficial. The fastest I've seen non-class degrees performed was 3 days in a row by special dispensation for a candidate who was abut to ship overseas for a combat deployment. He was going to have to do his proficiencies when he got back.
     
  7. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    I did mine on 3 consecutive regular meeting nights. EA-10-12-1973, FC-10-26-1973, MM-11-9-1973. I was in college at the time and made six 80 mile round trips to meet with my instructor between the EA and FC, it did not take that many between the FC and MM, mouth to ear, he was retired and was a very good instructor. He became my mentor in Freemasonry, a role model, and very dear friend. I miss him very much and think of him often and the influence he had on me and many other Masons young and old.

    I was then elected and installed as JW at our regular meeting on 12-14-73.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
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  8. dalinkou

    dalinkou Premium Member

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    Several people did, but as far as I know, he's never been back. It's kind of hard to be burned out if you only come to Lodge three times though.
     
  9. Companion Joe

    Companion Joe Premium Member

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    It took me four months, only because one of those months was December 1993, and our lodge doesn't do degree work in December. I was fortunate enough to be young (22) and sharp and have the time to work on the lectures freely with my instructor.
     
  10. Joshua71

    Joshua71 Grand Standard Bearer GL of Alberta, PM Lodge #195 Premium Member

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    I was initiated in the month of February, passed in the month of April and not raised until the month of September when I went through. We go dark for July and August so that's just how the timeline fell. I was quite happy that it took the time it took. I waited over a year to be initiated anyway so I felt it was all worth the wait and enjoyed the ride lol. Still am!
     
  11. frs225

    frs225 Registered User

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    Yes very possible. My lodge is mouth to ear and holds "education" sessions every Monday. My brother and I attended just about every week and had no issues. We actually continued to attend and are currently learning how to confer degrees. Good luck to you, and don't stress... this is going to be a very rewarding time in your life. Enjoy it. Another tip that I was given here was do not research the degrees before you go through them. It lessens the experience.
     
  12. jfree7997

    jfree7997 Registered User

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    Oh no I was raised about 3 weeks ago. I was just curious because up here I'm seeing a lot of guys go from beginning to end in 3 months. Not really understand how or if that even makes sense to do so fast.
     
  13. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    It's most commonly two months in my area, actually. Initiate an EA today, he'll spend the month working with a coach, prove up, pass to FC one month from today, spend a month working with a coach, prove up, raise to MM two months from today. Some take longer to learn the work, but most don't.
     
  14. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I did so: Jan, Feb., Mar, demonstrating proficiency for each degree in open lodge. We had no book. I went to my coach's home.
     
  15. Bob Reed

    Bob Reed Registered User

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    It's impressive that so many can learn the full proficiency in so short a time, especially when it's ear to mouth. It can obviously be done, but my question is why so fast? Are we shortchanging the EA and FC degrees by spending so little time on them? I think so. Why not take some time to meditate on the lessons and hidden meaning contained in the degree, especially the penalties. What is the benefit of moving so fast?
     
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  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I've not seen a qualitative difference in learning lessons of the degrees between thirty days or thirty months (indeed, 30 years for some). Remember, the two degrees were conferred in one day in Scotland. Stevenson, The First Freemasons. Further, it is uniquely US that the lengthy proficiency has been required. In UGLE, where it may well take a year to get the degrees as we may only have four meetings and one is installation, proficiency is about 11 questions with the Deacon prompting.
     
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  17. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I was getting ready to say 'yes', that we are short changing them. However, I think the question is a bit more difficult to answer than that. There is SO much to learn from each of the degrees that it could easily take years for each one. I will even go so far as to say that it would be impossible to understand what has been presented in a month or two. That being said, not everyone is looking for that deep of a level of understanding. The deeper lessons of Freemasonry are there and available to those who seek them and are willing to put the time and effort into finding them, but for those who aren't interested in that aspect, it shouldn't be thrust upon them.
    That being said, I think where we often run into problems is that there are essentially 2 paths for 'proficiency'. There is memorizing the catechisms and attaining a true understanding. The question is how to make both paths available to the new brothers.

    Case in point: I was entered on 03/12/2009, passed on 07/09/2009, and raised on 09/12/2009. My EA and FC catechisms were perfect, both question and answer in the long form. But looking back on it, I didn't have the slightest clue about what was really being presented to me. I am now going back and relearning a lot. However, what is the alternative? If someone would've told me the night of my initiation that there is a much deeper meaning to the ritual and that it would likely take years to understand before moving on and then doing it all over again, what would my reaction have been? Furthermore, is offering that up pointe blank a bit like cheating? In my lodge, if there were any brothers looking deeper, it was unknown to me, so the thought of slowing down would've been met with a resounding 'why?'.
     
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  18. Bob Reed

    Bob Reed Registered User

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    I did not know that about Scotland...thanks! I just wonder that a new brother coming in might be disappointed to shotgun through the degrees and be left asking: Is that it? I just hear stories about brothers never coming back after their raising and wonder if their attention and expectations may have been better cultivated by being compelled to look deeper at what they just experienced. But as was stated by hanzosbm it is up to the individual to do that. Anyway good perspectives that I really didn't have before.
     
  19. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    By way of analogy, even though my mother jurisdiction of Utah has requirements to be a Master (open, close and confer all three degrees, KS in third, one of the degree lectures), I didn't really know the ritual until I served a G Lecturer some 10 years years into my Masonic career. I certainly didn't "rush" through the ritual. I still had t absorbed all I should learn. I've been practicing Masonic jurisprudence for my mother GL and three international bodies for some 16 years. I just learned something new last week (some jurisdictions allow any MM to confer the degree).

    OTOH, maybe I'm just a slow learner.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
  20. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I had a friend years ago who explained that if you traveled too quickly to a place then all that arrived was the physical body and that the higher parts did not engage with the place.

    Similarly with Masonry. If there is nothing but outer ritual then be as quick as you wish. If however there is some inner place at which to arrive then it must be done when the candidate is inwardly prepared and the temple in the heavens is rightly aligned.

    As we do not bother with the inner aspects of Masonic ritual, it often disappoints.
     

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