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Traditional Observance

dlee12882

Premium Member
Good day Brothers,

My apologies, I was writing this from my computer and lost internet (at work) and apparently it submitted a partial post.
I was wondering about visiting a local T.O. lodge in my area (Kansas City). From what I have been told the dress is usually a Tux. Do these lodges require that visitors be dressed as such as well or is this left up to the discretion of each Lodge. I am thinking about contacting the secretary just to be safe but I wanted to hear input from you all before hand. Thanks for reading and I apologize for the blank forum
 
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dfreybur

Premium Member
Merry to meet, sad to part, merry to meet again. Merry to meet again, again, Merry to meet again.

Singing, just another feature of TO lodges.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess, since you are in KC, you are talking visiting about Inner quest Lodge #456. I pulled the following off their web site:

"Inner Quest Lodge Stated Communications are open to all men able to prove themselves a Mason. Visitors are welcome and encouraged. We place great emphasis on the quality of the Lodge experience itself and request that all visitors provide the following courtesies:


Contact the Worshipful Master or a member of the Lodge prior to your visit and express your desires. He will provide any necessary details on when and where future Communications will be conducted, as well as answer any questions you may have. We participate in an informal dinner gathering afterwards, which you are earnestly invited to attend. Certain arrangements must be made in advance to accommodate visitors properly.


A dark suit and tie are a minimum dress requirement.


One of the tenets of Inner Quest Lodge is that all Brothers are esteemed with equal respect and standing — from the newest Entered Apprentice in the Northeast corner of the Lodge to the Worshipful Master who presides in the East. As such, each Brother wears a simple and unadorned white apron in the Lodge."
 

Bob Reed

Registered User
I just joined this forum and can answer any questions on the TO style lodge as I was Initiated, Passed and Raised in one. Yes, it is a more formal dress environment. A dark suit is fine for visitors. Members wear white tie and tails with a plain apron and white gloves. Unfortunately I have to had the opportinity to travel to other lodges just yet, so for me this is the norm although I am aware most do not operate this way. It works for me but I know many will be put off by the formal dress. There is a lot more to a TO lodge like higher dues and more focus on degree work. I attended my first Agape in July 2011 and was just raised last month.
 

KSigMason

Traveling Templar
Site Benefactor
While I was in DC I stayed with an officer for Nine Muses Lodge which is a TO Lodge. I enjoyed visiting their Lodge.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
I don't know if attending the TO meeting was the best Masonic experience I've ever had, but it certainly belongs in the conversation. I wasn't going in blind; I know all about how things were going to take place, but once I got to see it and take part, I was blown away. I love the pomp and ceremony. To me, the formality is what makes Masonry stand out.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I just joined this forum and can answer any questions on the TO style lodge as I was Initiated, Passed and Raised in one. Yes, it is a more formal dress environment. A dark suit is fine for visitors. Members wear white tie and tails with a plain apron and white gloves. Unfortunately I have to had the opportinity to travel to other lodges just yet, so for me this is the norm although I am aware most do not operate this way. It works for me but I know many will be put off by the formal dress. There is a lot more to a TO lodge like higher dues and more focus on degree work. I attended my first Agape in July 2011 and was just raised last month.
That is my problem with the TO designation: the implication that there is a lot more to them. My mother lodge does degree work in white tie. We have Agape. We call it dinner. My English lodge wears is either dark suit or stripy trousers. We have Agape. We call it a meal. I have yet to see what makes a TO lodge a TO Lodge, other than calling dinner by a pretentious name.
 
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Companion Joe

Premium Member
The difference between the TO lodge meeting I visited the other night and a standard lodge meeting around here is night and day. The dress, members and officers entering in procession, the music, you could never pull that off at a regular lodge. If you mentioned it, some of the members would be all for it; others would look at you like you are from another planet.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
The difference between the TO lodge meeting I visited the other night and a standard lodge meeting around here is night and day. The dress, members and officers entering in procession, the music, you could never pull that off at a regular lodge. If you mentioned it, some of the members would be all for it; others would look at you like you are from another planet.
I know any number of UGLE lodges which have music and the officers process.

I'm used to people looking at me like I'm from another planet.
 

Brandon Smith

Registered User
I am a member of a non-T.O. Lodge, but have visited a local T.O. lodge several times. Here in Louisiana, the T.O. lodge is completely night & day from the typical lodge experience. Everything about attending lodge, in my travels, has been overly casual from the attire, meal, meeting, and fellowship. Any deep or real conversations about Freemasonry are non-existent. Attempts at bringing education and conversation about the craft have been all but completely shunned. However, when I visit the T.O. lodge the brothers are truly excited about everything Freemasonry has to offer. The meeting is a celebration of the craft if you will.

Now, with that said, is the need for a term such as T.O. necessary? Or does it drive brothers further apart? Thats not a question I will attempt to answer. I can say, however, that when I leave a T.O. lodge meeting I feel amazing. I leave feeling that I want to continue to make progress in bettering myself and those around me. When I leave my lodge meetings I often feel disappointed, let down, and unsure as to why I wasted my evening hearing minutes and bickering.

It sounds like the lodge experience for you, Bro. Cook, is much better than mine and those I know personally, and thus, makes the idea of T.O. unnecessary. I can respect that opinion. I visited a lodge in Colorado that was non-T.O., but had everything I sought in attending a masonic lodge meeting. I felt uplifted and if it were my home lodge I would feel no need to seek out another "style" of masonry.

Just my opinion...
 

Bob Reed

Registered User
I've heard of a number of lodges using some "TO concepts" but not others. I like Brandon Smith's explanation very much. The problem with TO is the reputation or label Traditional Observance. Some take it to mean something arrogant or "elite." It's just another form of masonry. Any brother is welcome to visit or affiliate.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I've heard of a number of lodges using some "TO concepts" but not others. I like Brandon Smith's explanation very much. The problem with TO is the reputation or label Traditional Observance. Some take it to mean something arrogant or "elite." It's just another form of masonry. Any brother is welcome to visit or affiliate.
My view is a bit different: I object to the perception put forth by some that only a TO lodge takes ritual seriously or wears evening dress. Additionally there is a sense that some are dismissive of the bonds of fraternity found in a lodge in which clean jeans are the appropriate dress. It does, indeed, come across as elitism.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I have yet to see what makes a TO lodge a TO Lodge, other than calling dinner by a pretentious name.

I'll offer two viewpoints.

1) TO lodges have more requirements because those requirements were traditional so they keep the ones that work towards keeping Masonry what it should be.

2) Non-TO lodges broke off the superfluous traditions so they only keep the ones that work towards keeping Masonry what it should be.

The difference is up to the brother in the mirror.
 

Bob Reed

Registered User
My view is a bit different: I object to the perception put forth by some that only a TO lodge takes ritual seriously or wears evening dress. Additionally there is a sense that some are dismissive of the bonds of fraternity found in a lodge in which clean jeans are the appropriate dress. It does, indeed, come across as elitism.

Who puts that perception forth? I think that perception has to come from brothers outside of those in TO lodges. With the exception of brothers like myself who where raised in a TO lodge (7-8 brothers in Enlightenment 198) every other brother is active in more than 1 lodge and most would (and do) say that their mother lodges do excellent ritual work. We don't put down other lodges because most of us are active in those lodges as well.

I am always surprised at how emotional brothers get about dressing up. We have a lodge uniform, that's it. In our case we decided on white tie and tails. Whether you are a lawyer or roofer you are dressed exactly alike. What can be more conducive to the bonds of fraternity than that?

The other point I would make is that the one universal complaint I always hear from masons is the disappointment with boring meetings. In the case of TO lodges the brothers took it upon themselves to try and fix it by making lodge an event, not just some meeting. They did this by dressing up, adding music, processing in, masonic education, chain of union etc. Then afterward an Agape, not just a dinner, complete with various toasts and open discussion on the educational topic presented in lodge. Now instead of complaining about boring meetings those brothers can complain out something else....you just can't win.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
....you just can't win.
I find it humorous and ironic that some of the ones calling out "elitism" in T.O. Lodges are also posting their disdain for the way Widow's Sons look in another thread.

Personally, I'm on Chapter 13 of Cliff Porter's book and so far everything I've read sounds very impressive and along the lines of what I thought Freemasonry would be.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
At risk of going off on a tangent...

I've never understood the aversion of some to dressing nicely to go to Lodge. As if putting on a coat and tie is such and inconvenience and dressing a little nicer than one would to do yard work is 'elitist'. Nobody calls the guy in a suit at a wedding or a funeral elitist.
Now, if a man has a problem with purchasing a white tie suit that he is unlikely to ever wear anywhere else, I can understand his feelings from an economical point of view, but watching brothers from my own lodge get upset about wearing a suit confuses me.
 
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