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We Can't Afford to Wait
- Thread starter Blake Bowden
- Start date
Traveling Man
Premium Member
None of the above. When food pantries give food as an act of charity and then one demands free food as a “right” it is no longer charity. When doctors give free medical assistance and then the recipients demand free health care it is no longer charity. When our lodge gives free daycare, food to young teenaged mothers (provided that they stay in school) that’s charity. When the state was so impressed with our program they instituted the same program but without the caveat of the mothers finishing school, it no longer was a charity. We had mothers come to us demanding the benefits of the program without the stipulations in the contract, they claimed, “it was their right”. We had a local food kitchen that served food to the hungry but that too was discontinued because we were told that our stipulation that they not be drunk or high was illegal and it was “their right” to be fed. Where do you think the idea of support for widows and orphans came from? Charity, look what it has turned into! Alexis de Tocqueville would be shocked!
TexMass
Registered User
So are you saying that all of the people were coming to you saying they had a right and that you must take care of them or only a few? Because no matter the program there are always a few. I think I see where your going with it. Give up on the charity because a few people or a few "stipulations" make it too difficult or am I misreading your post. If you're complaining about a select few messing it up for the rest well welcome to the real world. We either accept a few are going to try and take advantage of a system and just deal with it or we junk it and leave this charity thing to someone else. Are you just stating your opinion or are you making a suggestion?
Traveling Man
Premium Member
First it was a few, then more and then we were "informed" through a lawyer. We then devised a new charity. It's not my opinion, it was the reality of the situation. It was truly a case of biting the hand that fed them. So sad, their loss not ours.
TexMass
Registered User
I'm with you Brother. We had a group who would organize and meet incoming military returning from Iraq at a military base in western MA. They found out that no arrival time was given only the date. Families would wait for hours with small children until a plane would finally arrive. The next time, they brought a grill and served hot dogs and even rented a "bounce castle" for the kids. It was great. When the GL found out they were told to discontinue the event since they did not have insurance for serving food in the event someone gets sick nor are they protected against any injuring in the "big bounce". They were very disapointed.
bottom line:
the federal govt doesn't have the authority to enact universal healthcare, and i'd extend that to social security and medicare.
the commerce clause is such crap. the universal clause? even moreso. nullification needs to start being used as more than rhetoric.
i just wanna be left alone to earn and spend my money on my own accord, and i'm tired of things being decided for me and things forced upon me. i see universal healthcare as expanding this. more and more and more just being piled on top of me until i just have no decisions to make and no freedoms left.
i'm not saying our current insurance system is great at all... it's pitiful. i wish we could get out of this idea that healthcare and work are tied together. i also think universal healthcare is a step in the wrong direction.
this idea that HMOs/PPOs should be used is absurd. we owe this great system to nixon, and to the state senators that have been paid off for it. government created the problem and now i see you asking for more government to solve it.
the federal govt doesn't have the authority to enact universal healthcare, and i'd extend that to social security and medicare.
the commerce clause is such crap. the universal clause? even moreso. nullification needs to start being used as more than rhetoric.
i just wanna be left alone to earn and spend my money on my own accord, and i'm tired of things being decided for me and things forced upon me. i see universal healthcare as expanding this. more and more and more just being piled on top of me until i just have no decisions to make and no freedoms left.
i'm not saying our current insurance system is great at all... it's pitiful. i wish we could get out of this idea that healthcare and work are tied together. i also think universal healthcare is a step in the wrong direction.
this idea that HMOs/PPOs should be used is absurd. we owe this great system to nixon, and to the state senators that have been paid off for it. government created the problem and now i see you asking for more government to solve it.
Traveling Man
Premium Member
The only individuals that don't know the alternative suggestions, are the individuals talking in echo chambers.
You know the ones that claimed the "other side" had no suggestions (a blatant lie), the individuals that tried to excoriate the other party as the party of "no".
Meanwhile making backroom deals with Big Pharma, Big Unions and The AMA while ignoring "we the people". It's all about the power and money, it has little to nothing to do with the real problem. I agree with JTM leave us alone; please don't "help" us anymore.
I'm sorry - you just seemed to say "there are suggestions" followed by "leave us alone". And you prior posts declared people don't want health care reform. (Even though that seemed to be a survey of people satisfied with their health care, thus having health care).
What are the suggestions for non-evil reform?
Traveling Man
Premium Member
I'm sorry you seem so confused. The answer is: if there "are" alternative suggestions but those suggestions being summarily dismissed out of hand, "we the people" select "none of the above". People have an aversion to things being negotiated behind closed doors and then summarily crammed down their throats. Is that so hard to understand?
Are you implying the only ones who should be heard are those without health care? How absurd!
So. No suggestions for raising the longevity, infant mortality and other health conditions to be on par with much poorer nations? No suggestions on how the working poor can gain the same access to health care rich foreigners do?
Suggestions other than screw em they're bad people.
Not implying that. But that seems to be the inverse of you using the 75% number (which seems to only listen to the insured).
Suggestions other than screw em they're bad people.
Not implying that. But that seems to be the inverse of you using the 75% number (which seems to only listen to the insured).
Traveling Man
Premium Member
So you are admitting that all those “government programs” to protect those listed above isn’t working? Then the answer must be, (drum roll please) another “program”.
Come on let’s not be intellectually lazy, look up the suggested alternatives. There’s no need for your hateful heated rhetoric, please cease and desist, otherwise this dialogue is closed!
I guess I'm not aware of the government programs meant to provide access to people
Just asking a question. What are the alternatives you know of. It might be lazy not to look it up, but one of the purposes of discussing it with someone is to gain from those who know something.
It's especially hard when the criteria are "no government action" and "those who actually seek help are wrong to do so"
I have good googling skills, but can't quite weed it down.
I'll offer an alternative mentioned. That was co-ops. My objection to that idea is that its untried and theoretical. We have programs around the world we could analyze for good and bad implementations to refine them. We don't have any co-op models on a large scale. I might be more likely to accept the idea if we actually had the foresight to at least analyze existing programs.
I'll try not to use terms like intellectually lazy and absurd when responding to others in this thread. I'll try not to stereotype or demonize the poor and sick.
easy. let the scottish rite children's hospital, the shriner's hospitals, other not for profit hospitals, state hospitals, county hospitals, for profit hospitals, doctors, and families decide what is best for the situation and let them implement it.
this idea that the federal govt has to be involved at all is outrageous. get them OUT.
cuba, finland, swedend, the UK, germany, france, canada, israel, australia... what's the difference between their healthcare systems and ours? around 300 million people.
why does finland's work so well? because there are only 5 million people involved, very little immigration, and besides the 2 factions of natives vs islamic immigrants, they are much a homogeneous population.
ours: 304 million and about as heterogeneous as it gets... you can't have a uniform program for that many people.
the idea that HMOs will work for everyone is stupid. why will universal healthcare be any better? it's a false promise of a better system that you're going for.
why does finland's work so well? because there are only 5 million people involved, very little immigration, and besides the 2 factions of natives vs islamic immigrants, they are much a homogeneous population.
ours: 304 million and about as heterogeneous as it gets... you can't have a uniform program for that many people.
the idea that HMOs will work for everyone is stupid. why will universal healthcare be any better? it's a false promise of a better system that you're going for.
So Rush, why shouldn't the Republicans participate in this so-called "Healthcare Summit" with Obama? You label it as a trap, but why? If the Republicans have a better plan...then speak up!!
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again, there are a couple main differences between these two plans. 1st: obama's dream plan requires more theft from the rich. You seem to think that they aren't rich for a reason and won't get their money back. You'll still be paying for it, and if you couldn't afford it before, being forced to pay for it later will mean the money comes from somewhere. Probably another area of your life you aren't willing to give up.
2) for what the dream plan requires you are forcing people to give up their earned money. All you need for my plan to work is to leave me alone. It increases freedom and liberty at the same time. Win, imo.
2) for what the dream plan requires you are forcing people to give up their earned money. All you need for my plan to work is to leave me alone. It increases freedom and liberty at the same time. Win, imo.