What happens to a Military Lodge when a location is closed?

[alterian]

When a Location is shut down and the lodge is no longer in that location what happens to a Military lodge and its members?
Does the lodge continue to exist or are the members moved to another lodge in that jurisdiction? I know they can demmit and go to another lodge but can they remain in that perticular lodge?

 

[Brother JC]

That's up to the Grand Lodge that issued the Charter. They might allow it to travel to another base, or return to the States. The Brethren who received their Degrees in that lodge that are going somewhere else would do as any fellow who had gone before; Plural or Demit, again subject to the variances of GLs.

 

[alterian]

Ok, thanks for the speedy reply.

 

[Bloke]

Historically, the first "traveling warrants" were issued to Freemasons in a specific military group. Grand Lodge Ireland was the first to issue traveling warrants. For instance

"Most of the Military Regiments sent on garrison duty to New South Wales in the early days of the Colony had Masonic Lodges attached to them, but Lodges Nos.227, attached to the 46th Regiment, and 218, attached to the 48th Regiment, are those most closely associated with the establishment of the first permanent Lodge in Australia. Lodge No.227, I.C., the Lodge of Social and Military Virtues, attached to the 46th Regiment, is credited with holding the first public Masonic ceremony ever held in Australia. On 2nd November, 1816 this Lodge was responsible for the laying of the corner stone of Bro. John Piper's house at Eliza Point, Sydney. Thirty-two Masons actually took part in the ceremony. Lodges under the Irish Constitution The 46th Regiment, to which Lodge No.227,I.C.,was attached, was in New South Wales from 1814 to 1817"

(source http://www.discoverylodge.org.au/files/pdf/public-presentations/Early FM in NSW.pdf )

So, when 277 IC was moved from Sydney, the warrant and lodge went with them to their new destination (Madras I believe) . In the British Army, this is why you find the same Lodge in India, Afghanistan, Mauritius and other British Colonies during the late 1700's and through the 1800's - the regiment was being moved around - and the warrant went with them.

As these military lodges today seem to be of Prince Hall GLs, I've not sure what happens there... but would would often find a traveling warrant would be used to initiate men and some would be left behind when the military group left, either by virtue of some of those military men retiring and staying in a colony or some of the residents being initiated. Prince Hall is a classic example of the latter. Those regularly initiated men left behind, would then apply for a warrant, often sponsored by the lodge holding the traveling warrant under which they were initiated...

 

[Pscyclepath]

Traveling/military lodge charters are usually assigned to a specific unit or regiment; wherever that unit goes in the course of its assignment, the charter or dispensation goes with it. That's one of the problems with these sorts of lodges these days, you will likely have a military lodge chartered by one grand jurisdiction operating within another grand jurisdiction in many cases. For example, a military lodge chartered by Arkansas in 1861 (Kilgore U.D., with the 6th Arkansas Infantry) served not only in Arkansas for a brief period, but also in Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, and North Carolina during its service.

 

[dfreybur]

Traveling/military lodge charters are usually assigned to a specific unit or regiment; wherever that unit goes in the course of its assignment, the charter or dispensation goes with it.

One strangeness with the overseas military lodges sponsored by PHA OK or other PHA jurisdictions is the unit they are chartered for are stationary bases. It's a variation on that historical theme. What happens when those bases are eventually closed - no one yet knows.

 

[Pscyclepath]

Not being on active campaign, most units are stationed at a fixed site or home base... not marching all over the place as they were in the Revolution or the Civil War. Michael Halleran's The Better Angels of Our Nature has good information on the traveling lodges of the Union and Confederate armies; I've done a bit of work into the ones chartered here in Arkansas...

 

[acjohnson53]

In some cases like Oklahoma, District 8, falls under the Jurisdiction of Oklahoma, so the Charter would go back to the District...or possibility it could open in a new area....Brothers will find a way to work and keep it going. we don't stay down for long/G\

 

[acjohnson53]

Like that Beehive...when the Queen Bee moves the workers will follow.....

 

[dfreybur]

In my lodges, the location they meet at is in the bylaws. To change the bylaws there's a 2-3 month process to go through. Motion at a Stated Meeting. Notice by paper mail. Possible layover 1 month for written notice to go into effect. Vote at Stated Meeting. Written notice to GL for possible veto.

If military lodges that meet at fixed bases have similar rules, they can relocate to the next base as long as they get notice a few months before their current base closes or shrinks to the point of no quorum.

 

[Bloke]

In my lodges, the location they meet at is in the bylaws. To change the bylaws there's a 2-3 month process to go through. Motion at a Stated Meeting. Notice by paper mail. Possible layover 1 month for written notice to go into effect. Vote at Stated Meeting. Written notice to GL for possible veto.

If military lodges that meet at fixed bases have similar rules, they can relocate to the next base as long as they get notice a few months before their current base closes or shrinks to the point of no quorum.

Interesting. In my jurisdiction (and others) the meeting location is fixed in the warrant; indeed its my understanding that's why the Irish invented traveling warrants which were ones where GL did not fix the location in which the lodge met.

 

[dfreybur]

Interesting. In my jurisdiction (and others) the meeting location is fixed in the warrant; indeed its my understanding that's why the Irish invented traveling warrants which were ones where GL did not fix the location in which the lodge met.

In my jurisdictions, lodges under warrant have fixed locations. Lodge charters list their *initial* location. It is have common for a lodge to relocate to a new building after a few years if they rent, a few decades if they own. Having a process to handle that allowed lodges to move around so it reduced the mortality of lodges. I'm not completely sure that reducing the morality of a lodge is the right goal.

 

[Bloke]

Hi Defreybur

Just to add something. Our warrants will have something like "meeting on the 3rd Tuesday at the Coal Creek Masonic Centre" but these can be altered by GL dispensation but a new warrant is generally not issued.

I'm a big fan of keeping warrants alive, i've seen too many of them given up too easily.... I understand where you are coming from, but it takes effort to keep a lodge healthy and too many warrants die because of lack of effort. I know, my mother lodge is now vibrant with around 35 members, but we had only 14 members when we decided to push to save it, everyone said we were dead and should give up, we now have mm's in every office and 5 ea's

Consolidation is okay, but if lack of management skill and lack of effort are the problem, reducing the number of warrants does not solve the problem.

 

[Ripcord22A]

What is the difference between a charter and a warrent?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app

 

[dfreybur]

What is the difference between a charter and a warrent?

In my jurisdictions -

A group of Masons wish to form a new lodge. They ask the GM for a warrant to authorize them to meet and confer degrees - This is why I mentioned that the initial location is fixed. The life of a lodge operating under a warrant is not long enough to justify relocation. No vote at GL is needed.

A lodge operating under a warrant typical functions for 1-3 years to demonstrate that they can actually survive. At that point they petition GL for a charter. A vote at GL is needed.

A warrant is probationary. A charter survives the life of the lodge.

In the GL's I have attended I have seen the GM announce that a lodge operating under warrant needed more time so he handed it off to his successor. In the GL's I have attended I have seen the GM sign and display a charter. I'm pretty sure very few on the delegates had any idea what they were voting for as few cheered.

 

[Ripcord22A]

oh ok that makes sence

 

[Bloke]

What is the difference between a charter and a warrent?

Speaking to Lodge under United Grand Lodge Victoria

Here, I do not believe there is a difference. We talk of lodges being "warranted" or "chartered" but only ever call a warrant a warrant..

The process is
1 Getting an existence lodge to sponsor your new lodge
2 Applying for the Warrant
3 Warrant being issued by GL
3 Foundation - when the warrant is first used.

The only distinction is for a lodge or instruction, they have license and not a warrant.

 

[Warrior1256]

A group of Masons wish to form a new lodge. They ask the GM for a warrant to authorize them to meet and confer degrees - This is why I mentioned that the initial location is fixed. The life of a lodge operating under a warrant is not long enough to justify relocation. No vote at GL is needed.

A lodge operating under a warrant typical functions for 1-3 years to demonstrate that they can actually survive. At that point they petition GL for a charter. A vote at GL is needed.

A warrant is probationary. A charter survives the life of the lodge.

Here, I do not believe there is a difference. We talk of lodges being "warranted" or "chartered" but only ever call a warrant a warrant..

The process is
1 Getting an existence lodge to sponsor your new lodge
2 Applying for the Warrant
3 Warrant being issued by GL
3 Foundation - when the warrant is first used.

The only distinction is for a lodge or instruction, they have license and not a warrant.

Great info! I had not heard of a warrant or license before.

 

[dfreybur]

Great info! I had not heard of a warrant or license before.

Not a part of the first degree lecture in your jurisdiction?

 

[Warrior1256]

I don't recall it but I could be mistaken.

Not a part of the first degree lecture in your jurisdiction?