Who wrote the first three rituals.

[David612]

Not to disagree with brother David612, but rather to offer some context that I think a lot of American Masons miss;

Preston wrote most of the lectures we are now familiar with (Webb basically edited Preston's work). You know the very long parts that you take a deep breath before reciting? Those were Preston/Webb. For one thing, Preston's Illustrations of Masonry was written about Freemasonry, not as the ritual itself. It's freely available online and I'd encourage you to look through it to see not only what is the same and different from what we know today, but also the context in which it was written. Personally, I think it's a long stretch to say they wrote the ritual, but rather, they commentated on the ritual and their writings were later incorporated into the ritual to better explain it. I don't believe that was ever Preston's intention, Webb is a different story.

Prior to this, Anderson's Constitutions outlined a lot of Old Charges which included a lot of the rules and obligations we see in our current degrees, but in different verbiage. This was also the time that the Grand Lodge was trying to at least somewhat standardize the rituals. We don't really know what the degrees looked like around this time or before. We have catechisms from earlier and some of them, like the Edinburgh House Register, do mention the candidate going through a series of events similar to floorwork. Other than that, the early catechisms are about the symbols of the fraternity, so we don't know what, if any, degree work there was. It's possible that it consisted solely of swearing a short oath on the constitutions and then listening to the catechism spoken by others, or, it could've been as elaborate as what we have today, we simply don't know.

As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.

 

[hanzosbm]

As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.

Agreed. I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences. Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms. There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening. Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours? We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.

 

[David612]

Agreed. I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences. Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms. There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening. Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours? We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.

Exactly how I see it, I think Preston especially is interesting and the impact he made on the ritual and the way he went about it is just fascinating so it makes you wonder the circumstances around all the developments between lodges, states and countries.

 

[Center]

Preston's Illustrations of Masonry was written about Freemasonry, not as the ritual itself. It's freely available online and I'd encourage you to look through it to see not only what is the same and different from what we know today, but also the context in which it was written.

First of all I want to express how is deep and beautiful your signature
"Wisdom might be defined as Virtue plus Knowledge multiplied by Contemplation." -- Bro. Hal Riviere

Thank you, to wrap up I am getting that my research does not have to be really historical, but much more philosophical. This gives space to this rhetorical question that tautologically does not need any reply: How is important to know who wrote the BL rituals, if I can enjoy different versions? If by comparison I should find rituals version that I feel I can contemplate in a better way than others, I can always invest some time trying to understand the historical context, the type of obedience, and its familiarity with some particular appendant bodies, and only at end I could isolate a group of individuals that wrote them and go trough their biography or their life curiosities. What matters is to build on in ourselves the moral lessons, not to try to find the sources of this association. To repeat your reply we would find often a 'we do not know', does not relatively matter if the operative thing is if started in 1717, or 1721, or with the medieval corporations, or since the beginning of the humanity, what is much important is what is written and how that context is adaptable today to a seeker of the light.

 

[hanzosbm]

First of all I want to express how is deep and beautiful your signature
"Wisdom might be defined as Virtue plus Knowledge multiplied by Contemplation." -- Bro. Hal Riviere

Thank you, to wrap up I am getting that my research does not have to be really historical, but much more philosophical. This gives space to this rhetorical question that tautologically does not need any reply: How is important to know who wrote the BL rituals, if I can enjoy different versions? If by comparison I should find rituals version that I feel I can contemplate in a better way than others, I can always invest some time trying to understand the historical context, the type of obedience, and its familiarity with some particular appendant bodies, and only at end I could isolate a group of individuals that wrote them and go trough their biography or their life curiosities. What matters is to build on in ourselves the moral lessons, not to try to find the sources of this association. To repeat your reply we would find often a 'we do not know', does not relatively matter if the operative thing is if started in 1717, or 1721, or with the medieval corporations, or since the beginning of the humanity, what is much important is what is written and how that context is adaptable today to a seeker of the light.

I completely agree. Our rituals are full of symbolism which I personally feel are the most important part of Freemasonry and while the history by itself is of little concern to me, one reason I have read as much of it as I have is that I feel that over the years, the way that symbolism has been taught and transmitted has changed. Reading the rituals (or at least the catechisms of the past) to me is like seeing the lessons from a different angle which helps deepen my understanding, or at least, my contemplation.
Then again, maybe that's the point. The more vague the lesson, the deeper the contemplation. Perhaps the goal wasn't to give the initiate a roadmap, but instead to leave it vague enough to cause him to search so much that he eventually turns that search inward. What better way to learn to 'know thyself'?

 

[Elexir]

Calling back to forces occultes, clips from the movie is in the video for "from the pinnacle to the pit" by Ghost.

 

[hanzosbm]

>I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them

In 1943 the Nazis produced a film about French Masonry. There were various rituals in use in France, and it seems that the version in the film is an accurate representation of an initiation of that time.

The movie is easily found on youtube.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_occultes

Thank you for that. I've seen this pop up a few times on Exodus when I search Freemason, but I just figured it was junk. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Glen Cook]

Agreed. I wish I could attend lodge in some of the jurisdictions which were not influenced by them to see the differences. Topics like this always fuel my curiosity and I went back and reread some of the old catechisms. There's a lot of information there and you can definitely see that more was going than just what the catechism lists (just like today), but it would be interesting to know just how much explanation was happening. Was the degree something that took 15 minutes or 3 hours? We'll never really know, but its fun not only to wonder, but also to read them and see which pieces have stayed the same and which have changed, and how they've changed.

Attend in Scotland, PA , England for a TI ritual and join the operatives. Make sure you do English HRA. My next meeting is 18 Jan, tyle at six,and you listen to my flat lander voice deliver Midlands HRR ritual.

Read Harrison’s new book on lost rituals and Stephen’s First Freemasons

Of course you could have come with me as G lecturer when I saw, regrettably, a variety rituals ,regrettably all denominated as Utah work.

 

[hanzosbm]

Attend in Scotland, PA , England for a TI ritual and join the operatives. Make sure you do English HRA. My next meeting is 18 Jan, tyle at six,and you listen to my flat lander voice deliver Midlands HRR ritual.

Read Harrison’s new book on lost rituals and Stephen’s First Freemasons

Of course you could have come with me as G lecturer when I saw, regrettably, a variety rituals ,regrettably all denominated as Utah work.

Regarding the work in Utah, that got a good chuckle out of me. My old lodge in Kentucky had so many brothers from around the country and so little oversight to force them to adopt KY ritual that it tended to be a bit of a hodgepodge. Usually it wasn't an issue, occasionally there was an unexpected question to which the answer was unknown.

As for Harrison's new book, I just happened to come across that recently and I was curious if anyone had read it and their thoughts, so that's very good to hear. As for English HRA...I'm a bit confused. Are there different versions performed? I suppose that's a dumb question considering all the variation in ritual, but how would I know which one was practiced in the California York Rite bodies?

 

[Glen Cook]

Regarding the work in Utah, that got a good chuckle out of me. My old lodge in Kentucky had so many brothers from around the country and so little oversight to force them to adopt KY ritual that it tended to be a bit of a hodgepodge. Usually it wasn't an issue, occasionally there was an unexpected question to which the answer was unknown.

As for Harrison's new book, I just happened to come across that recently and I was curious if anyone had read it and their thoughts, so that's very good to hear. As for English HRA...I'm a bit confused. Are there different versions performed? I suppose that's a dumb question considering all the variation in ritual, but how would I know which one was practiced in the California York Rite bodies?

California has a standard work which is very common in the US. Yes, different versions in England. My chapter in Cheshire uses the Midlands ritual and some of their own concoctions, including when to give the Penalty sign. My Cheshire lodge has its own third degree (est 1806).

 

[Bloke]

As an Aussie the works of Preston and Webb are pretty irrelevant to be but in a US context I think it’s interesting to know the history of those two and the impact they had on ritual in their time and the events surrounding the changes, it sort of reframes the question being asked in my opinion.

I've read several versions of Preston Webb and suggest they are not irrelevant. For instance, here in Australia, Lodges used to have Dinners and functions on St John's Day, reading something like a PA ritual helps understand why... When I was a history undergraduate, I will never forget something a professor told me - "You can understand what something is by understanding what it is not".... I think reading other rituals is quite useful to that end, and also generally understanding Freemasonry in other countries.. Unfortunately, its restricted to the English Language for me - which leaves big gaps I suspect..