My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why do we hold stated meetings on the MM degree only?

dfreybur

Premium Member
Indeed EAs can't vote here either, nor do they pay dues.

Because there are so few contested votes this rarely comes up for hand votes just for ballots. If an EA or FC renders a hand vote and the vote comes out unanimous, as it often does, no one cares.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I would like to see Blue Lodges embrace the idea of doing business on the EA for at least 1 meeting per month. Or maybe every other month. ...
And I'd like to see Blue Lodges actually providing Masonic Education that makes good men better rather than Freemasonic Training that makes compliant members.

But I ain't gonna hold my breath waiting for it to occur.
 

Keith C

Registered User
Because there are so few contested votes this rarely comes up for hand votes just for ballots. If an EA or FC renders a hand vote and the vote comes out unanimous, as it often does, no one cares.

Indeed. We almost never actually ballot on candidates and can vote on petitions when opened in the EA degree. We always have a mentor sitting with the EAs or FCs to make sure they know they can't vote. Elections and Installation of Officers must be done in the MM Degree, with the exception of the option to do an open installation.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Did they do anything besides just conduct the same business on a lower degree? If not, I can see why it had no effect. Conducting business on the EA degree isn't the goal. Conducting business on the EA degree because new initiates spend longer as EA's and FC's as they go through an intensive period of study and growth before being found ready for the next degree because they should absolutely have a stake in the Lodge they are being initiated in is. If a Lodge has the same mind-numbingly tedious business meetings like so many others today and the only change is to just open it to EA's and FC's, well I can very well see why it hasn't worked. Since you didn't say if anything else changed I am just making assumptions to continue the discussion. ;)
That's exactly how it was. After I became a MM & sat through a few stated meetings, I understood why my instructor would sit outside with me & go over my work- he didn't want to be bored either!
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
That's how it was in Texas back when I went through the Degrees & I didn't have a problem with it. I understood that I had much to learn before I could sit in a Master's Lodge, understand what was going on, & cast a vote (somewhat) intelligently. I thought of it as "paying my dues" & earning the status of MM. The change to doing business in EA & FC Lodges was promoted as a way of increasing retention. From what I've seen, it hasn't worked.

This was much my opinion as well. So much so, I conducted all the stated meetings my year in the East within the Masters Degree.

I also agree that the change has not done much in the way of increasing retention.
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
My Mother GL changed to “Master’s choice” quite a while back. Depending on presentations, discussions, and visitors a lodge may open in any of the three.
My other two jurisdictions open on the First.

That is much the same in Texas, being the Master’s choice and depending upon the work, degree, or visitors.
 

Mark Stockdale

Premium Member
I think I like the Scottish way, where all business is conducted in the EA, we only progress from there if the degree work that night warrants it. I think it helps that we have 2 meetings a month as a lodge, but we then have the general committee meeting once a month, which is where most of the actual business is decided, and only brought to Open Lodge to get passed by the Brethren when the minutes are read.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
I think I like the Scottish way, where all business is conducted in the EA, we only progress from there if the degree work that night warrants it. I think it helps that we have 2 meetings a month as a lodge, but we then have the general committee meeting once a month, which is where most of the actual business is decided, and only brought to Open Lodge to get passed by the Brethren when the minutes are read.
Dear Bro - I like the "Scottish way" too of opening a Lodge on the First Degree except that its not really the "Scottish way" - it is what most of the Masonic World does.. opening in the Third Degree and conducting business that degree seems to be an Nth American thing in origin - you will hear a Traditional History on it about an alleged murder, and a wonderful political movement or more rightly, a Convention in Baltimore.. I can't quite remember which came first (but it was sealed at the Convention I think). There is bound to be comment on these earlier in this thread

Of course in PA - they probably open on the 2.4569825 degree because that's how Pennsylvania rolls - it is the wacky place where they love to be different :)

One thing I do know is
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Of course in PA - they probably open on the 2.4569825 degree because that's how Pennsylvania rolls - it is the wacky place where they love to be different :)

You haven’t lived a complete Masonic life until you’ve seen the Wardens present their columns (probably not the proper terminology, but I was just a tourist in cowboy boots).
 

Mark Stockdale

Premium Member
Dear Bro - I like the "Scottish way" too of opening a Lodge on the First Degree except that its not really the "Scottish way" - it is what most of the Masonic World does.. opening in the Third Degree and conducting business that degree seems to be an Nth American thing in origin - you will hear a Traditional History on it about an alleged murder, and a wonderful political movement or more rightly, a Convention in Baltimore.. I can't quite remember which came first (but it was sealed at the Convention I think). There is bound to be comment on these earlier in this thread

Of course in PA - they probably open on the 2.4569825 degree because that's how Pennsylvania rolls - it is the wacky place where they love to be different :)

One thing I do know is

I didn't know that, I know of only 1 lodge in Scotland that always opens on the 3rd Degree for every meeting, it was explained to me that it was an Americanism.
 

Keith C

Registered User
You haven’t lived a complete Masonic life until you’ve seen the Wardens present their columns (probably not the proper terminology, but I was just a tourist in cowboy boots).

It is odd, but I have never been given an official name for it. In our Lodge we call it "The Dance!" You may not have noticed it, depending on where you sat, but there are foot steps as well as movement of the columns and hands.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I was in front of Bro Junior so had no idea what was going on behind me! I think the lodge got a chuckle from my reaction.
 

Canadian Paul

Registered User
Coach beat me to it. It was a knee-jerk reaction to the Morgan affair. Thankfully, many jurisdictions are coming around to rethinking how we do our meetings. My own EC Lodge conducts all business in the EA degree and only opens in the higher degrees to conduct the business of that degree. It means we don't have to rush a new Brother through the degrees because they are allowed to be full participating members after their initiation.
As does my Mother Lodge under the GL of Scotland and all lodges under the Grand Lodge of Newfounflandand Labrador. Our EAs and FCs can sit in Lodge and ovserve its workings right from the start. For that reason, when working an Initiation we defer all other business until after the ceremony so that the new EAs can observe the lodge's workings and the closing ritual that meeting.
 

CLewey44

Registered User
What if we met in the middle and held stated meetings on the 2nd degree. That would keep anyone out that just got initiated just to do it and then never showed up again. FCs are proven and have quite a bit of info given to them.
 
Last edited:

Brother_Steve

Premium Member
Why do some jurisdictions do business on the MM degree?
I have to be a full member to vote. However, we recently started being able to open on and conduct business on any degree we so choose.

The only issue is making sure the EA and FC masons do not vote. We assign a PM or a mentor to sit with them on the north side of the Lodge.
 
Top