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Why does Freemasonry require a belief in God?

MarkR

Premium Member
I'm making my way through Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. I just read his reason (and like all Masonic interpretations, it's his, and no one else is required to accept it) which is that someone who doesn't believe in a supreme being then necessarily considers himself to be the highest power in his own life, and thus is not receptive to the teachings aimed at improving him. That's a rough paraphrasing, anyway.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
JamestheJust said:
This is quite important. Without life after death there is no access to the temple in the heavens.
Sounds like a possible story/metaphor to demonstrate a deeper point (see above Jung discussion).
His disciples said to him, "When is the Kingdom of the Father going to come?" (Jesus said), "It is not by expectation for that it is going to come. They are not going to say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread upon the earth, and people do not see it." -- The Gospel of Thomas
According to this, you already have access.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
His disciples said to him, "When is the Kingdom of the Father going to come?" (Jesus said), "It is not by expectation for that it is going to come. They are not going to say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread upon the earth, and people do not see it." -- The Gospel of Thomas
According to this, you already have access.

And according to this, I might burn or be in a garden after I die:

Quran 47:12

Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow;
while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat;
and the Fire will be their abode.

Scripture is not a reliable source to make an argument as one can pretty much find anything in it to support any argument. From any holy book.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
I'm making my way through Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry. I just read his reason (and like all Masonic interpretations, it's his, and no one else is required to accept it) which is that someone who doesn't believe in a supreme being then necessarily considers himself to be the highest power in his own life, and thus is not receptive to the teachings aimed at improving him. That's a rough paraphrasing, anyway.

This argument is an assumption based on a specific contingency, and smacks a bit like the false adage "Atheists cannot be moral." I would reject Mackey's assertion on its whole.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
Scripture is not a reliable source to make an argument as one can pretty much find anything in it to support any argument. From any holy book.


Of course scripture is a reliable source to make an argument. This argument is around belief systems. Most of the world's main belief systems have a scripture of some sort. And to go further, what Brother Nagy was talking about was about a specific reference to where to find the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
His disciples said to him, "When is the Kingdom of the Father going to come?" (Jesus said), "It is not by expectation for that it is going to come. They are not going to say, 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread upon the earth, and people do not see it." -- The Gospel of Thomas
According to this, you already have access.
To go further, my personal favorite:

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."--Gospel of Thomas
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
And according to this, I might burn or be in a garden after I die:

Quran 47:12

Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow;
while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat;
and the Fire will be their abode.

Scripture is not a reliable source to make an argument as one can pretty much find anything in it to support any argument. From any holy book.
LOL! Who's arguing. It was offered merely to provoke insight into other possibilities to perpend.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
In Texas Freemasonry a man must also profess belief in the immortality of the soul.

Necessary in some states not others. I've never studied why that divergence happened in different regions.

When I read the term "faith tradition" I thought of someone who has decided to believe in the existence of a supreme being but who has decided to not participate in any particular religion. Such an individual is welcome into our family because our requirement is belief in the existence of a supreme being. Deciding to participate in a particular religion is common but not universal in our family. It would never occur to me to use the term "faith tradition" in association with atheism.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
Agreed. Atheism is the absence of faith. That'd be like categorizing vegetarianism as a meat tradition.

I don't believe I classified atheism as a faith tradition. I think what I said was "no faith tradition". I apologize for any confusion.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Some have argued, and done so quite convincingly, that Atheism is a Religion. To some degree, I agree, especially in regard to the practices of the radical in-your-face promoters of their faith.
 
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Classical

Premium Member
Well, atheists have sects and heresies. They have disparate schools of thought and are engaged in public disputation. They also place their current lives and future prospects in the hands of this system of thought. If this is not the very definition of religion, what is?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Well, atheists have sects and heresies. They have disparate schools of thought and are engaged in public disputation. They also place their current lives and future prospects in the hands of this system of thought. If this is not the very definition of religion, what is?
And the most humorous aspect of this is how much focus on God is actually involved in their efforts. Quite Ironic.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Some have argued, and done so quite convincingly, that Atheism is a Religion. To done degree, I agree, especially in regard to the practices of the radical in-your-face promoters of their faith.

Atheism is a religious choice, whether you consider it a religion or not. There are atheists who argue that we are all born atheists but an infant's lack of knowledge is definitely not a decision to not believe nor a decision to not participate.

Religion has a list of sufficient but not necessary features. Among them is dogma. The in-your-face type of atheists definitely have dogma.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
Atheism is a religious choice, whether you consider it a religion or not. There are atheists who argue that we are all born atheists but an infant's lack of knowledge is definitely not a decision to not believe nor a decision to not participate.

Religion has a list of sufficient but not necessary features. Among them is dogma. The in-your-face type of atheists definitely have dogma.

This is false on its face. Atheism is not a religion. It is the complete rejection of religious belief or practice predicated on a lack of evidence for religious belief. Even if one could establish a belief in a supernatural belief (deists), all their work is still ahead of them to tie it to a specific faith tradition (that term again). Atheism rejects both of these hypothetical explanations.

I concede that some Atheists may be as close-minded in argumentation style and personality. But to label atheism as a religion is objectively false. I think Classic's description of atheism as a school of thought, one that is supported by evidence, is most accurate.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
Well, atheists have sects and heresies. They have disparate schools of thought and are engaged in public disputation. They also place their current lives and future prospects in the hands of this system of thought. If this is not the very definition of religion, what is?

Religion is defined as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." Atheism is more properly a school of thought.
 

NY.Light.II

Registered User
That is ONE definition of religion, and it does not fit with one of the world's largest religions (Buddhism), so I am apt to dismiss it.

Buddhism

The belief in: Gautama Buddha and his nirvana. Is he a personal God/enlightened prophet? Not sure (I'm not a member of or an expert in Buddhism).
Worship: meditation (the common ritual throughout all religious strains of Buddhism).

It should be noted that many debate whether Buddhism is more a religion or a philosophy.

Regardless. This is a side-point. I fail to see why an absence of belief in deity should preclude a man being made a mason, outside of "well the landmark says so." That's a valid reason, but if that's the only reason provided, one must admit that it's fails objective scrutiny. Saying "that's just how it is" is not an objectively driven defense.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
... I fail to see why an absence of belief in deity should preclude a man being made a mason, outside of "well the landmark says so." That's a valid reason, but if that's the only reason provided, one must admit that it's fails objective scrutiny. Saying "that's just how it is" is not an objectively driven defense.
The scripts call for believers. Believers are not only the target market, but it is what other members want as a qualifier for entry and participation.
 
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