Why is the north a place of darkness?

[Warrior1256]

The North as a place of darkness is found in many mythologies so its most likley not that easy.

Agreed!

 

[Matt Ross]

There is an interesting legend of a Temple workman whose name was Cavelum. He was kinsman of King Solomon and was the house of David; thus he had high status among the other workmen. In the process of inspection of work in progress on the north wall of the Temple at a place where the north gate was to be, Hiram Abif accidentally dislodged a stone. It fell and struck Cavelum, who was killed. Hiram Abif was so overcome by grief that he ordered the north gate sealed and closed forever. (5)

This legend was once used as the basis for a degree called Fellow Craft Mark. Dr. Albert Mackey has stated that this was an early trace of the present Mark Master degree.

http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/artfeb02/OLD LEGENDS OF HIRAM ABIFF.HTM

I didn't know that brother! Thanks for sharing this light!

 

[Brother JStoffo]

This is an old thread. I only found it because I am a musician and the only place for keyboards is in the North in some of the Lodges that I have visited. Would it make sense to have music emanating from the North? A place of darkness doesn't necessarily include sound. There were a lot of references to the EA lecture. Fortunately, the Secretary of the Lodge in Key West presents that lecture. But I have read most of these 10 pages of material here and still do not know if I can set up a keyboard and amp to play for a degree in the North. In my Lodge I am the Treasurer and set up on my desk in the Northeast behind the Senior Deacon. Nobody has complained. In other Lodges, I have seen visiting musicians set up in the North and nobody complains. I would think that if there were some Ritualistic or Masonic reason for not having music come from the North, that this question would be much easier to answer.

 

[MarkR]

I never thought about that. Our organ is in the northeast corner, but we don't have anyone who can play it.

 

[Brother JStoffo]

Just about every "permanently installed" organ or piano that I have seen in Lodge is in the Northeast behind the Treasurer. But when I and other musicians travel to a different Lodge, the North is always quite open.

 

[usar123]

Interesting!

 

[Keith C]

Just about every "permanently installed" organ or piano that I have seen in Lodge is in the Northeast behind the Treasurer. But when I and other musicians travel to a different Lodge, the North is always quite open.

Interesting. Most Lodges I have been to in PA that DO have organs or pianos DO have them behind the Treasurer, BUT in PA the Treasurer is in the South East! We do have an organ in our Lodge but no one to play it and it is located next to the Junior Warden's Station, facing East in a bit of an alcove that leads to a doorway to our storage closets. (Our Lodge building is a re-purposed Church so is not exactly layed out to facilitate a Lodge taking up all the floor space.

 

[Brother JStoffo]

We have seats in the North but they are rarely occupied. Unless we have a large gathering or a Memorial of some sort. In that case, we place the family there. Most Lodges in the Florida Keys have seats in the North and most of the time they are empty.

 

[Keith C]

We have seats in the North but they are rarely occupied. Unless we have a large gathering or a Memorial of some sort. In that case, we place the family there. Most Lodges in the Florida Keys have seats in the North and most of the time they are empty.

MOST people sit in the North in our Lodge and most of the ones I have visited in PA.

 

[Glen Cook]

In England

Just about every "permanently installed" organ or piano that I have seen in Lodge is in the Northeast behind the Treasurer. But when I and other musicians travel to a different Lodge, the North is always quite open.

In England I only recollect them in the SW.

 

[Bloke]

Well there you go. Our organs are in the West and almost always South West. indeed, I cannot think of a lodge room where it's been anywhere else. except the South West except where the door is there like at Sovereign Hill Historical Park. it's the only example I can think of where it is in the Nth West not Sth West.

 

[Keith C]

Well there you go. Our organs are in the West and almost always South West. indeed, I cannot think of a lodge room where it's been anywhere else. except the South West except where the door is there like at Sovereign Hill Historical Park. it's the only example I can think of where it is in the Nth West not Sth West.

I SO love the differences! We have the doors to the Preparing room in the South West and to the Examining Room to the North West as well as doors to the Anteroom on either side of the Senior Warden's Station, so no room for anything else in either angle of the Lodge. The Junior Deacon is sometimes between the Senior Warden and the anteroom (or Inner) door, sometimes between the Inner Door and the preparing room door and sometimes on the South side of the preparing room door depending on how the doors are placed.

 

[Bloke]

Oooh...i thought of one here where the organ is in centre north - Main Lodge room No 1 at Prahran in Melbourne.... and the door there is in the Sth West which is the usual location for our organ....

 

[Brother JStoffo]

Our entrance doors in the USA are generally in the South West and the ante room is in the North West.

 

[Brother JStoffo]

Well, I just left a Lodge meeting in a suburb of Portland Oregon. Most of the Brethren sat in the North and some in the South. The Treasurer, Chaplin and Senior Deacon were in the North on the East side. Interesting. A great touch was that after the stated meeting, all of us had our beverage of choice and went around the room to all 37 of us to speak for one moment about why we are gratified to be Free and Accepted Masons. It is a splendid way to spend some time together after the formal meeting. Being a visitor, I couldn't help but take note that I immediately was greeted with friendship and Brotherly love from these new acquaintances. There will always be a place where we are welcome. Great Fraternal Order. I am honored.

 

[Glen Cook]

Well, I just left a Lodge meeting in a suburb of Portland Oregon. Most of the Brethren sat in the North and some in the South. The Treasurer, Chaplin and Senior Deacon were in the North on the East side. Interesting. A great touch was that after the stated meeting, all of us had our beverage of choice and went around the room to all 37 of us to speak for one moment about why we are gratified to be Free and Accepted Masons. It is a splendid way to spend some time together after the formal meeting. Being a visitor, I couldn't help but take note that I immediately was greeted with friendship and Brotherly love from these new acquaintances. There will always be a place where we are welcome. Great Fraternal Order. I am honored.

I have never seen the Chaplain sit in the North. In some English lodges you will see the Secretary and Treasurer there.

Could I clarify: in what room were you when you had your beverage of choice?

 

[Brother JStoffo]

We were in the Lodge building but not the Lodge Room. The area where we have a meal before the meeting. Being an old navy guy, I call it the chow hall. I'm sure that there is a more Masonic word. Not the Ante room either. In Florida, we are not allowed to have liquor in the Lodge at all. This is a Florida Grand Lodge decision. I have been to meetings in several cities where booze was allowed. In San Francisco, there is even a proper bar tender who was not a Mason. When we went in to start the meeting, he left. Naturally I was pleasantly surprised and will go to that Lodge any time I find myself in San Francisco..

 

[Glen Cook]

Thanks.
I have never been in any lodge (in over 30 jurisdictions) in which alcohol was allowed in the temple/the lodge room except for ceremonial purposes.
This old navy guy also calls the chow hall “the mess.” I suppose we could say “the dining hall“ and be all fancy.

 

[MarkR]

Thanks.
I have never been in any lodge (in over 30 jurisdictions) in which alcohol was allowed in the temple/the lodge room except for ceremonial purposes.
This old navy guy also calls the chow hall “the mess.” I suppose we could say “the dining hall“ and be all fancy.

In Minnesota, alcohol is only prohibited in the actual lodge room. Elsewhere in the building is okay. And I attended lodges in Scotland where "harmony" was held in the same room as the meeting had just been conducted in. They removed the Masonic accoutrements, set up tables, and the bar opened.

Oh, and the Army no longer officially has "mess halls." They are now called "dining facilities," commonly referred to by soldiers as "D-facs."