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Widows Sons

dfreybur

Premium Member
The Shrine is the only one that I know of. There have been instances of conflicts between the Shrine and Grand Lodges in the past. To my knowledge, except in one instance, these have all been resolved.

Small versions of that conflict seem to happen in some state or another every couple of years. All of the past ones have blown over in under a year, except that one.

I do not know of any other organizations that have had conflicts with Grand Lodges. If I am wrong please provide some examples with credible sources.

Some of them are not nearly as spectacular. Jobs Daughters can not operate in Texas for example. Some conflict about background checks and putting practices about them in place before a deadline.
 

rpbrown

Premium Member
I am, well lets just say over 60. Been riding since I was 12. I have a Harley and love to ride. With that said, I am also a Master Mason, Senior Warden and a Scottish Rite Mason.
I do wear a vest, mostly for protection. And it has saved me some road rash at least once. Since I wear a vest, and am a Master Mason, I do have a Square and Compass on the back. Not because I want to look like a OMC but because I am proud to be a Mason and want to show it. I have never heard anything but good about my vest. In fact, others (non-bikers) have ordered them from me as well.
 

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Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Jobs Daughters can not operate in Texas for example. Some conflict about background checks and putting practices about them in place before a deadline.

That matter wasn't nearly as trivial as you make it sound. Perhaps you should research it more thoroughly.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Autonomy: the quality or state of being self governing. From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autonomy
Yes Brother, after giving the matter some consideration I believe that your word more accurately describes the situation. The disagreement comes down to who will govern the behavior of the Widows Sons in each jurisdiction, the presiding Grand Lodge or the Widows Sons International. These two organizations appear to have conflicting interests and goals. How would you propose that we decide who has the better claim of authority?
Apologies for the delay in my response, Brother. For some reason, my browser has been having issues with this site over the last few days. Apparently I need to purge my cache or something. /shrug

I don't have the answer. These things are largely political and pop up often outside of Masonry as well. It's sort of like a copyright/trademark issue with one company suing another over using images incorrectly or illegally. With Michigan, it appears as though the GL wants ownership of logos in exchange for GL approval. Some view it as a bit of damage control, others view it as a power play.

Both sides have valid points.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
OK, I'm just going to say it. Disrespect.
It has been my observation he Widows Sons are free to organize anywhere that they are willing to respect the authority of the presiding Grand Lodge.
No. In Utah, they came to the GM and requested approval of their bylaws in the appropriate manner there was no disrespect shown. To the contrary.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Autonomy: the quality or state of being self governing. From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/autonomy
Yes Brother, after giving the matter some consideration I believe that your word more accurately describes the situation. The disagreement comes down to who will govern the behavior of the Widows Sons in each jurisdiction, the presiding Grand Lodge or the Widows Sons International. These two organizations appear to have conflicting interests and goals. How would you propose that we decide who has the better claim of authority?
With respect, "we" don't decide. This is an issue for the members of that sovereign GL to decide.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
With respect, "we" don't decide. This is an issue for the members of that sovereign GL to decide.

Yet I am a PM in two jurisdictions so I have at least a potential vote in both. I and included in the members of those sovereign GLs. This is included in what you meant so I include it for expansion. I have voted for or against acceptance of assorted groups asking for appendent body status, though I don't recall Widow's Sons coming up for vote during any of the years I held a vote.

I rather wish the WS rode in a type of full leathers that I see on what might be called "crotch rocket" cycles rather than the vests and patches style. Different look than the one percenters and I think that difference to be desirable.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
I totally agree. Yes, despite what some may think, your choice of clothes makes a statement.

I think back to the Past Master charge where we are instructed that through virtuous conduct we are to convince mankind of the goodness of Freemasonry.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
I totally agree. Yes, despite what some may think, your choice of clothes makes a statement.

I think back to the Past Master charge where we are instructed that through virtuous conduct we are to convince mankind of the goodness of Freemasonry.
And nothing convinces mankind more about virtuous conduct than the clothes you're wearing, right?
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
Nevada has a charge for its PMs?

I can't speak for Nevada, but I'd feel safe in saying if the Past Master's degree is conferred, then there is a charge.

You don't have to be an actual PM to receive the degree, and not all actual PMs take the degree. It is conferred as part of the York Rite or as part of joining a Past Master's Association.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
So, you are a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas but belong to the Tennessee Grand Chapter of Widows's Sons?
No but I have meet them and others are Bike Rallies. As am member of the GLoT I am not allowed to even talk to them because of the edict of 2007. My vest was the one with the Cross Of Lorain on it and I was warring that before I became a MM because it is a Family thing from about 800ad which is before the Templars used it.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
The Widow’s Sons want to trade on the name and reputation of Freemasonry without accepting the constraints that come with that.

Any organization that wants to be considered officially “Masonic” by requiring its members to be Master Masons in good standing and using symbols that are considered distinctly Craft/Symbolic/Blue Lodge Freemasonry must accept that its recognition as “Masonic” is subject to the Constitution, Bylaws, General Regulations, and Edicts of that Grand Jurisdiction (Rules).

If they do not wish to comply with this all they have to do is remove the symbols and conditions that make them subject to authority of that Grand Jurisdiction. They can then do whatever they want as long as the individual members do not violate the the (Rules) of that Grand Jurisdiction.

As far as other Appendant/Affilliate/Concordant/Masonic Clubs having issues relative to autonomy/Grand Lodge authority , The Shrine is the only one that I know of. There have been instances of conflicts between the Shrine and Grand Lodges in the past. To my knowledge, except in one instance, these have all been resolved. I do not know of any other organizations that have had conflicts with Grand Lodges. If I am wrong please provide some examples with credible sources.
No you are wrong you have to be a MM to belong to the WS in the states where they are.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Because sometimes, the organization represents values not consonant with Freemasonry.
Which values are those and where are they written so we can judge what you are looking at. So the William Morgan thing should always tarnish Masonry after all these years? So because of a un becoming patch that is not used anymore tarnish the WS. Should the Easternstar(prince hall) MC lady that is in jail in Waco because she was at a TCoC Texas conferderation of clubs meeting tarnish the easternstar? https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com...he-queen-another-female-biker-victim-of-waco/
 
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