Women Freemasons

[mas2500]

Some are more equal than others. If I attempted to join the women's institute it would be rejected as its only open to women. To much of this liberal nonsense these days.


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True, but you have tomboys/ tomgirls


Future mason from born from the past ones.

 

[Steve1mufc]

Yeah it's a grey area. How would they get through the degrees though without embarrassment. Plus as part of the oath, fundamental changes would be required which I can't see happening,


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[BigDre357]

I actually have a documentary on Freemasonry that has Janet Wintermute a female Master Mason and I was stunned when I first saw it

SMIB /G\

 

[FlBrother324]

Equality, part of being human.


Future mason from born from the past ones.

What does belonging to a fraternity have to do with equality? Does that mean that college men should be able to join and live within the sororities, and vice versa for the college women to join and live in the fraternities?
Some things are just what they are!
This politically correct homogenization of our country is absurd!

Private means private; existing under their set rules and guidelines they choose.

As I said previously, just because a Swallow flies South for the winter with the ducks, doesn't mean it can call itself a duck or join in their flocks.

 

[FlBrother324]

This is just a thought, but why don't we give Women there own Lodges?...


Future mason from born from the past ones.

They have their own branches of our Masonic order: Job's Daughters and Rainbow Girls for the youngsters, and Order of Eastern Star, and Amaranth for the adult ladies. We are not the Rotary or Elks clubs.

 

[Brother JC]

They have their own branches of our Masonic order...

*devil's advocate moment*
In all fairness, Brother, you can't call these "their own" as they require the presence of at least one Master Mason, and are effectively open to any Master Mason who wishes to drop in. Perhaps if their Charters were changed to reflect "members only," and their rituals kept sacrosanct, as ours are...

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

*devil's advocate moment*
In all fairness, Brother, you can't call these "their own" as they require the presence of at least one Master Mason, and are effectively open to any Master Mason who wishes to drop in. Perhaps if their Charters were changed to reflect "members only," and their rituals kept sacrosanct, as ours are...

Quite right. To call these organizations "Masonry for women" is an insult, to women and to Masons.

It is unfortunate that there are not recognized Lodges for women only, and for mixed membership. I don't know that I'd be inclined to regularly attend a mixed membership lodge, but the idea that it would be an option is attractive. Make no mistake, I like the dynamic that can exists only in a males-only lodge and am not in any way advocating an end to that, but I know women, including one Master Mason, whom I would be proud to sit in Lodge with were that an option. Of course such lodges already exist, but lacking recognition, they are not an option for any Mason who was initiated in a regular and recognized lodge. Their existence in no way threatens "traditional" or "mainstream" Masonry, and if done properly, recognition for them would not change that.

 

[FlBrother324]

*devil's advocate moment*
In all fairness, Brother, you can't call these "their own" as they require the presence of at least one Master Mason, and are effectively open to any Master Mason who wishes to drop in. Perhaps if their Charters were changed to reflect "members only," and their rituals kept sacrosanct, as ours are...

I'm not sure of the regulations or membership requirements in your jurisdiction for these organizations i mentioned, but in our Grand Jurisdiction you are not allowed to attend a tiled meeting of OES or Amaranth unless you are a member in good standing of said Appended Bodies. I am a member of a local Chapter of OES that my wife and daughter belong to, and though they have a Worthy Matron and Worthy Patron, the Chapter's business and meetings are run and organized by the elected and appointed officers which are all women. The Worthy Matron governs the Chapter in the same capacity as a W:.M:. does his Blue Lodge. The only other position in the Chapter that can be held by a Brother ( and is not required to be ) is the Sentinel. The reason for the Worthy Patron is to be affiliated to a Blue Lodge, just like any other appended Masonic body requires ( i.e., Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shrine (except in Arkansas), etc...) them to have. It is strictly for affiliation purposes. It is similar for Amaranth as well.
The rituals are to be kept sacred and in violet just as in all Masonic bodies. Disclosure of the rituals is unMasonic and should be dealt with accordingly.

Regarding Rainbow Girls and Job's Daughters they are run by the young ladies and supervised by a Chapter Mom with the support of the local Blue Lodges.

So as far as our State is concerned, these are operated by, and for the Women of our Masonic family.
If you've ever attended one of these meetings ( OES & AMARANTH ) you would see just how different they are regarding their protocols and ceremonies, I only attend when I'm asked to because it is definitely geared for the women !! They are completely independent of the Blue Lodges. I assure you they run things as they see fit, as they should.

I'm not sure why J. Flotsam finds this insulting to both women and Masons alike. I don't know how much working knowledge he has regarding same. It appears from his bio information he may not even be a Mason?

I thank you for your input and understand how you feel, like you, I feel our Masonic Fraternity shouldn't change its' heritage foundations to reflect women in the Lodge. There is nothing that is stopping them from forming a similar organization that is a Sorority based quasi- Masonic entity. They just shouldn't be referred to as "Masons". That is our heritage and it shouldn't be infringed on, or changed otherwise. IMHO.

I am so tired of activist and the like thinking they should Homogenize all of society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a PRIVATE organization with the type of membership they so choose to have, without having to "water it down" to be politically correct. Why can't people accept that?


May the GAOTU bless you and keep you under his protection and care.

Yours, in His service.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

...I assure you they run things as they see fit, as they should.

I'm not sure why J. Flotsam finds this insulting to both women and Masons alike. I don't know how much working knowledge he has regarding same.

I said that "...To call these organizations 'Masonry for women' is an insult, to women and to Masons..." because it is. I have no issue at all with these organizations themselves, but to suggest that they are something equivalent to a Lodge of Masons is just silly.

I am so tired of activist and the like thinking they should Homogenize all of society. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a PRIVATE organization with the type of membership they so choose to have, without having to "water it down" to be politically correct. Why can't people accept that?

Quite right. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a private organization determining the criteria for membership in that organization. I've not read anything here that would suggest otherwise.

Why then, can't people accept that a desire for equality does not have to mean the same thing as a demand for homogeneity?

 

[ChaplinMike277]

Learn what the apron is for

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[dfreybur]

Why then, can't people accept that a desire for equality does not have to mean the same thing as a demand for homogeneity?

That's the rub. Why then, can't people accept that forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetness? I figure these two common confusions shared a basic cause having to do with the shallow nature of sound bites and the need to ponder the differences to give their deeper meanings to seep into our minds.

 

[hidonmesahj]

Women cannot be masons. We can respect eachother without bleeding so many lines. Masonry is not a right. It's an private fraternity with regulations.

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[JohnnyFlotsam]

Women cannot be masons. We can respect eachother without bleeding so many lines. Masonry is not a right. It's an private fraternity with regulations.

Tell that to the many female Masons around the world.
Perhaps you meant to say that women Masons are not members of regular Lodges in recognized jurisdictions. In that you would be completely correct.

Where were you first prepared to be made a Mason? Do you think your answer is different because of your gender? Do think that females can not grasp the lessons of our order?

 

[jasper7788]

As correct as that statement is. Just as I would not recognize a clandestine mason I will not recognize a woman Freemason. This has nothing to do with sexism but rather tradition.

I've seen our ancient degree work take on many changes in my short time. There are just things that need to stay to keep the fraternity sacred.


Bro Jason Moreland
Barger Lodge #325
Stroudsburg, PA

 

[Dis1Recording]

A woman can become a Eastern Star. Not a Freemason. Your oath speaks about that.


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[JohnnyFlotsam]

A woman can become a Eastern Star. Not a Freemason. Your oath speaks about that.

My obligation enjoins me from making a woman a Mason and from being present at such an event. Period. It makes no mention of Eastern Star. The fact remains that there are female Masons and that I have not broken any obligation in recognizing that.

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

As correct as that statement is. Just as I would not recognize a clandestine mason I will not recognize a woman Freemason. This has nothing to do with sexism but rather tradition.

I've seen our ancient degree work take on many changes in my short time. There are just things that need to stay to keep the fraternity sacred.

Whether or not that view is sexist depends a great deal on what you mean by "recognize". If you mean that in the sense that we, as "regular" Masons, may not have "Masonic communication" with female Masons (or any clandestine Mason, for that matter), then I would agree completely. But if you mean to suggest that we simply should not discuss Masonry, it's lessons, etc., then, at the very least, you misunderstand the nature of our obligation. If you mean that women should not have, or are not capable of, such discussions, then that is a very sexist statement.

 

[R4M1R0]

I would vote no,

Not only due to tradition, the definition of fraternity, or because men, biological, would act differently and treat them differently. Nor, due to some smug idea that men are superior than women.

But, because it has been shown that men learn and thrive best when they are in tribe, brotherhood, due to deeper connections and security. That in these modern times we have lost a piece of our manhood and masculinity, due to the shift from bronze to intellect, as well the to our politically correct society, and the idea that equal means no boundaries.

Masonry, allows men from many backgrounds to meet and learn from each other, a system wherein feelings of joy and tranquillity grabs the hearts of two brother whom have identified each other.


In my lodge the last brother who knocked even stated that due to his age (56) that he had little to no friends and found it difficult when approaching others, but Masonry relieved him of that difficulty. Now I see him every month talking to everyone. His wife was the one who pushed to our door. Before Freemasonry, I would never had expected to hang out with other men who were 30+ years than me, but thanks to her I have learned to value the advice of my elders, as well as to enjoy the time with them.

We are not here to take over the world, control the minds of children, or destroy the belief in God. We are just a group of men trying to men good men better, through brotherhood, moral teachings, and etiquettes of being a gentlemen.



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[jasper7788]

That all depends on what parts of freemasonry you are saying can be discussed. I know the lessons I learned in the degrees are not for discussion.

What I meant is that in my third degree I was taught certain items pertaining to this topic which I wi never violate. Further, I won't engage in conversation with a woman Freemason as it is not recognized.

Tell a woman I am a mason is about as far as I would take it if I am to obey the oaths and obligations. Certain historical items are fine. But details no.


Bro Jason Moreland
Barger Lodge #325
Stroudsburg, PA

 

[FlBrother324]

Whether or not that view is sexist depends a great deal on what you mean by "recognize". If you mean that in the sense that we, as "regular" Masons, may not have "Masonic communication" with female Masons (or any clandestine Mason, for that matter), then I would agree completely. But if you mean to suggest that we simply should not discuss Masonry, it's lessons, etc., then, at the very least, you misunderstand the nature of our obligation. If you mean that women should not have, or are not capable of, such discussions, then that is a very sexist statement.

I couldn't agree with you more Br. Moreland, there is nothing sexist about your statement. The bottom line is: no matter male, female, duck, or swallow. Just as no clandestine mason can be received as a Mason in a "regular" Lodge, or have lawful communication with a regular Mason; no matter the similarities of the "women masons" they can' t be a Mason.
Which I believe, both of you agree with.

Like similarities of life patterns a Swallow has with a Duck, it can never be called a Duck. The Duck wins by default, because he had the name first and still does.

So it should be vehemently maintained under "Our" heritage, and precepts that we hold the title Mason, and shouldn't except or acknowledge those that would try to horn in on our rights to be the sole usury of said sovereign title. MASON.

IMHO, however sharing any of the Masonic teachings past generalities, I believe to be a direct violation of our "oaths" taken during our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degrees in the Lodge. If asked specifics, I politely advise the individual that I can neither confirm nor deny, regarding same, and either change the subject or end the conversation.

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