Women in masonry

[zouzoum]

Why women are not permitted in mainstream lodges ?
Do you think its because we are keeping the tradition that within the stonemasons guilds there were no women ? Though many amendments were made in the modern masonry but not in gender.
Or is it something deeper than that related to cabala, alchemy ,etc? Maybe esoteric masons can explain ?

 

[Ressam]

Why women are not permitted in mainstream lodges ?
Do you think its because we are keeping the tradition that within the stonemasons guilds there were no women ? Though many amendments were made in the modern masonry but not in gender.
Or is it something deeper than that related to cabala, alchemy ,etc? Maybe esoteric masons can explain ?

Hello.
As a non-mason, I can assume that:
Essence of women(meaning of The Being on The Earth) is a lil' bit different.
They cannot: keep secrets, they're more addicted to mammon(money), some call them "devils jar",
some say "Kinder, Küche, Kirche", etc. etc. etc...

And the importance is that also: It's written in the Anderson's Constitution: "No women".

 

[Ressam]

The structure of Masonic temples and ritual has a close relationship to that of Mithraism, the members of which apparently were exclusively male - primarily being soldiers.

Further, when Masonry was reformulated in 1717, married women were the legal dependents of their husbands and arguably not free.

Thus the male-orientation of Freemasonry could be an artifact of history.

Examination of the nature of the FPoF may indicate that an error has occurred in the exclusion of women.

James!
More "creatively", please! More "funny".

 

[CLewey44]

Why women are not permitted in mainstream lodges ?
Do you think its because we are keeping the tradition that within the stonemasons guilds there were no women ? Though many amendments were made in the modern masonry but not in gender.
Or is it something deeper than that related to cabala, alchemy ,etc? Maybe esoteric masons can explain ?

I would venture to say that it's something that simply would never get passed in a vote. Most men treat their lodge time as their on personal time away from their spouse or girlfriend. Their one spot where they can go and just be with guys. However, what Ressamabi was saying couldn't be further from the truth. I'd even assume he is just being sarcastic maybe? Also, guys act different when women are around. That doesn't mean guys misbehave more around other men, but it would definitely change the vibe of the room if it were half full of women.

 

[dfreybur]

Or is it something deeper than that related to cabala, alchemy ,etc? Maybe esoteric masons can explain ?

There are spiritual reasons for having groups of only men, groups of only women, groups of both genders. Having all three types is a form of balance.

I don't know enough Kabala or alchemy to say why. The reasons for groups by gender don't apply to chakra activations which appear in the signs. So I'm not sure if the balance issue comes from any specific school.

 

[Ressam]

However, what Ressamabi was saying couldn't be further from the truth. I'd even assume he is just being sarcastic maybe?

No sarcasm, Sir.
I truly think that -- Freemasonry & other spiritual "exercises" are not for women.
I wanna add:
of course, that's strictly -- "my personal IMHO"!
Women are -- very precious creations in this World!(Probably Most Beautiful).
And, of course, GAOTU Loves Equally men&women!
I only mean about "functions"(men&women).

 

[Akiles]

As far as I know, the reason is a landmark. That's all.

But, if you want to know why exist that landmark, then you have to be able to understand the reality of the XVIII century in England, and specifically in the operative masonry....To be free, you had to have a job, and to have a masonry job, in that time you have to be a man...every woman at that time was a man's dependant (his father, his brother, his uncle, his husband....). So nobody at that time thought that a woman could be free....

Ok, them, why don't you change it? Because other landmark, and because the masonry is tradition, and you accept to respect that tradition at the moment you cross the door of the lodge....

Sorry for my English, I appreciate every correction.

 

[MarkR]

One day, a female student was in my office at the university. She asked about the Masonic stuff displayed there. After I explained Masonry for a bit, she asked why women weren't permitted to join. I asked her "do you and your female friends act differently when guys are around compared to when they're not?" She immediately said yes. I said "it's the same with guys. Bringing in women would change the entire "vibe" of Freemasonry. I'm not saying it would necessarily be bad, but it wouldn't be the same." She said "that makes perfect sense."

 

[coachn]

Why women are not permitted in mainstream lodges ?

Because the membership decided about 300 years ago to create and support this rule. It can't get any plainer or simpler than this.

Do you think its because we are keeping the tradition that within the stonemasons guilds there were no women ?

No. That is not a tradition and it never was one. It's made up to support and justify what we have today. However, we are not a continuation of those guilds. We never were. That is lore, not fact.

Moreover, we are a continuation of the theatrical societies of medieval times when most all guilds put on "mystery plays" (The word "mystery" at that time meant "occupation" when applied to this term). They did not permit women not because they didn't want them to participate but due to society norms and more especially the laws of the time proscribing woman from participating as actors in theatrical productions. In other words, it was illegal to have them involved.

If you think about it, if we are to continue doing the theater that we do and remain true to the theater norms of the time, no woman would be allowed in what we do.

That being said, the tradition is outdated. Times have changed. But men's mentalities and needs to be in men's groups are not governed by the laws of man. They are governed by a strong psychological need to be away from female influences when communing with other men, even if all that they are participating in is mind-numbing business meetings.

The organization fills that need for some.

Though many amendments were made in the modern masonry but not in gender.

As is should be. We have a men's society and, as was pointed out, we like it that way for a multitude of reasons; all personal to men folk.

Or is it something deeper than that related to cabala, alchemy ,etc?

Nah. You can tunnel down a thousand rabbit holes of fantasy and rationalized woowoo but the central fact is simple: The membership wants a place to hang with only their male homies.

Maybe esoteric masons can explain ?

They could, but it would not help to clarify the male only picture by throwing rubbish upon it.

 

[dfreybur]

Ok, them, why don't you change it?

The simplest answer I know is this one -

It has been tried. There are CoMason jurisdictions and female only jurisdictions. The total population of all male only jurisdictions is well over a hundred times the population of all jurisdictions that are not male only.

The members didn't just vote by ballot. They voted with their feet and the results are so overwhelming the jurisdictions that admit women are minuscule.

I'm glad that jurisdictions exist that admit women. There is strength in diversity and maybe someday over the rainbow that particular type of diversity will be important. In today's world, the populations of the jurisdictions tell the tale as completely as I need. A hundred to one or more.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Nah. You can tunnel down a thousand rabbit holes of fantasy and rationalized woowoo but the central fact is simple: The membership wants a place to hang with only their male homies.

Coach, You WIN THE INTERNET today! that is the greatest quote EVER!!

 

[Ripcord22A]

Does the GAOTU think that Masonry is so important that it should be restricted to men?

Or does the GAOTU think that Masonry is so unimportant that it does not matter that it is restricted to men?

I have yet to decide.

Let me help you....Its neither! The GAotU doesnt bother him/herself with what we find important. Masonry dang sure aint even onthe GAotU radar!@

 

[Ripcord22A]

deleted...dup post

 

[hanzosbm]

Wow, there's a lot of "facts" being thrown around in here.

One of Freemasonry's most important aspects is that it is a single organization stretched across the world. There are of course slight differences, but at some point, a line had to be drawn to determine what it meant to be Freemasons. In other words, who was and wasn't. This was done by way of recognition and was based on certain landmarks that MUST be followed in order to be recognized. In other words, they are the framework that makes up Freemasonry and are inflexible. Without them, it would be possible for the organization to drift off course so far as to be unrecognizable.
American Masons could see a comparison with the Bill of Rights; like them or not, they are the foundation of our country and cannot simply be changed without acknowledging that the original organization is no more.
So, why no women? Because when the landmarks were being created, someone said no women, and to change that would mean that we were no longer falling within the framework of Freemasonry. Some have done this, and they are not recognized by mainstream Freemasonry.

 

[coachn]

Wow, there's a lot of "facts" being thrown around in here.

Including this one:

"One of Freemasonry's most important aspects is that it is a single organization stretched across the world."​

This is not a fact.

 

[hanzosbm]

Including this one:

"One of Freemasonry's most important aspects is that it is a single organization stretched across the world."​

This is not a fact.

So...are you saying that Freemasonry is not a single organization or that it isn't stretched across the world, or that it isn't important?

 

[Ripcord22A]

So...are you saying that Freemasonry is not a single organization or that it isn't stretched across the world, or that it isn't important?

Im saying its all 3 of those things that arent a fact. We are not a single organization. There are almost 100 legitimate GLs(organizations) in the USA alone. Not to mention all the spurrious GLs. Also Freemasonry is not streated all over the globe. Also I would say if your statement was true that being a single Org streatched accross the globe isnt one of our most important aspects

BUT I understand the point you were trying to make!!

 

[hanzosbm]

Im saying its all 3 of those things that arent a fact. We are not a single organization. There are almost 100 legitimate GLs(organizations) in the USA alone.

And yet, you call them all Freemasonry. You can travel among those GLs in a way that non-Masons cannot. Why? Because it is one organization. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because it can be divided up that it means it is not one organization. You're in the military. Your platoon is an organization. Your company is an organization. Your battalion is an organization. It might be made up of multiple different pieces, but it all falls under an overarching umbrella. Mainstream Freemasonry is the same thing. It is one organization, made up of many smaller units. What defines it as an organization and determines which are members and which are not are the landmarks.

Also Freemasonry is not streated all over the globe.

If you mean that Freemasonry is not in every country, that's true. But that is not what I meant. I meant (as I said) that it is stretched ACROSS the world, which it is.

Also I would say if your statement was true that being a single Org streatched accross the globe isnt one of our most important aspects

I suppose that this COULD be considered opinion, but considering that it is part of the very first line of the Tyler's oath, I'd say it's pretty important.

 

[coachn]

So...are you saying that Freemasonry is not a single organization or that it isn't stretched across the world, or that it isn't important?

I am saying your previous statement: "One of Freemasonry's most important aspects is that it is a single organization stretched across the world".. is not a fact.

It is not a single organization. Freemasonry is a label placed upon many individual organizations. These are separate organizations that recognize and cooperate with each other.

The rest of your question is rubbish.

 

[hanzosbm]

It is not a single organization. Freemasonry is a label placed upon many individual organizations. These are separate organizations that recognize and cooperate with each other.

or·gan·i·za·tion
ˌôrɡənəˈzāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: organization; plural noun: organizations; noun: organisation; plural noun: organisations

1. 1.
   an organized body of people with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc.
   "a research organization"

2.
the action of organizing something.
"the organization of conferences and seminars"
"the organization of conferences"

• the structure or arrangement of related or connected items.

"Separate organizations that recognize and cooperate with each other". "Arrangement of related or connected items". As I stated before, different organizations often make up a larger organization, such as with Freemasonry.