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Homosexual and Bisexual Brother Masons

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Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
My religion teaches that God's plan involves creating and rearing families, and specifically forbids acts of homosexual intimacy. But then again, my religion also teaches that we should love our neighbor and not judge others.

It all depends on the man. I might be against admitting a flamboyantly gay man, just as I might be against admitting a flamboyant womanizer. Anyone who uses their own sexuality openly and without discretion deserves, at the very least, a second and maybe a third look.

Beyond that, I think that it would be wrong to deny a man the chance to stand on a level with his fellow sinners just because he sins differently than (apparently) 90% of them.

Point(s) of Interest:
(I by no means are supporting or condoning your post here, simply a reference of subjects)

1) You have made a very valid point here, "your religion". Masonry is not a single religion, nor does it specify one religion being superior over another. Therefore, what is good for you may or may not be good for me. Until such religious definitions are made... well, you see where I am going with this. Also such a declaration would kill the fraternity as it sits today, it would not be as successful or enduring.

2) The fraternity does not specifically inquire as to the sexual nature of its petitioners, nor odes it specifically ban them from petitioning via bylaws. Therefore, until such legislation is passed, it apparently has no "play" in the assessment of a man's "sound mind and body" nor does it affect his "good report" IF he was truly and properly vouched for by worthy Brothers who SHOULD know the petitioner.
 
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Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
Look gentlemen, I have homosexual friends and each of them would make great Masons AND you would never know that they were gay...

I guarantee that there are homosexual Brethren active in Lodges all over this Nation right now. If you did not have an issue with them yesterday, there certainly won't be any changes tomorrow. They are not going to "come out" and make advances to you. They are going to keep quiet and pray that no one ever discovers their truth resulting in them being forcefully removed from the Fraternity that they love as much as you and I do.
 
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sands67

Premium Member
As long as they meet the criteria for being a mason sexual orientation should not make a difference. That is the bottom line in my books. If a mason ballots against a person based on sexual orientation he is acting due to his own personal beliefs and not necessarily his msaonic teachings.

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Mason653

Registered User
I like how this discussion has grown. This is a learning experience. I'm enjoying the feed back.




/G\
FHC
357
FLT


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cutter2001

Premium Member
I personally am sick and tired of a person's bedroom practices being made the end all and be all of how we classify people today. If your for homosexual marriage your tolerant. If your not your a bigot. So says 5 justices of the Supreme Court here in the US. Amazing that just a few years ago the same tolerant folks that support marriage "equality", where the very bigots that voted and signed DOMA into law.
Now we are asked about homosexuals in the Lodge. The same lodges that still prohibit our dark skinned brothers to visit and fellowship with us in many lodges throughout the US. In my opinion, lets worry about the truly oppressed, and those oppressed because of absolutely no fault of their own, and correct the inequities in our lodges with our PH brethren before we concern ourselves about those that if they would just keep private matters PRIVATE would have no problems with the vast majority of society.
 

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
I have a very close Brother who I get the same gist from. The part about if you oppose gay marriage you are a bigot and if you do you are tolerant stuff. To me, he seems a little defensive. I think most folks understand and respect the views of folks who simply define marriage as between a man and a woman and leave it at that.

But it brings to mind another bit I heard from a different man just a few short months ago. About 15 seconds after uttering the word *igger, of which I was still reeling and trying to figure out how to address it, goes on a bit where he says that hell, if you say anything about race anymore you are considered a racist. To which I had to say I didn't know about that, but that I didn't care for that word.

Anyway - the thing about the keeping private matters private, I agree. I don't think there is anyone who wants to turn Lodge into the Pride parade. There is a time and place for everything.

But here is the rub - by forcing folks to keep their orientation quiet, we force them to live in fear. To live a lie, to constantly fear exposure. To stomach the jokes that are ignorantly, or worse, purposely told in their presence to make them feel uncomfortable, unwelcome and so forth.

It is that fear that, personally, I'd take out of the equation.

PH visitation is another issue, one that I personally feel very strongly about and believe in action.

With this one, as far as Freemasonry is concerned - no laws have to be proposed, no edicts proclaimed, etc.

I ask myself, which is the tougher problem to be faced with? Knowing you have same sex oriented members of a lodge who are forced to live in fear, and trying to work with Brothers to tell less insensitive jokes, to change the subject over and over, to worry about black balls for an openly homosexual man who is extremely qualified and so forth? Or, telling a flamboyantly gay man, in private, that they are making some of the Brethren uncomfortable and asking them to tone down their behavior?

From a lodge management perspective, I'd prefer dealing with the second issue any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not just because the approach isn't something to wrangle about hows, whys, and whatfors, but because you can bet with very strong odds that you'd get results in one single conversation.
 

sands67

Premium Member
No one should or will discuss any of "rituals" as you call them.

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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
I just don't see how you can become a better man, and live that lifestyle.To me your not a man anymore, once you commit a act like that.


And, to me, a "man" who has ever condemned anyone to not being "a man" for the rest of his life is no longer a man until he abandons such a usurpation of God's privilege. As far as I have been taught, only One is qualified to judge anyone on an eternal basis. We humans are not to do so, and to do so is to try to steal God's holy Throne. It has nothing at all to do with "liberal" vs. "conservative", it has to do with humility vs. pride.

"You are not a man, anymore"--prideful, sinful, usurping God's authority.
"From what I have been taught you are sinning, and may imperil your soul." --less pride, does not usurp God's authority.
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
Is it true that knight templars rituals tolerate homosexuals brothers??????

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As a Sir Knight I can tell you that the "mainstream" Order of the Temple makes NO reference to a candidates sexual orientation. At no point in York Rite Masonry (including degrees 1, 2, & 3) is sexual orientation made reference to or inquired about. It has quite frankly never been an issue through the ages, or the Ancient Charges would clearly make a stance one way or the other.

No one should or will discuss any of "rituals" as you call them.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Freemasonry mobile app

It's okay the Brother has a valid question, there is no harm in asking. Surely you know what esoteric lines can and can not be crossed based upon the Obligations that you swore to abide by in your jurisdition.

I personally am sick and tired of a person's bedroom practices being made the end all and be all of how we classify people today. If your for homosexual marriage your tolerant. If your not your a bigot. So says 5 justices of the Supreme Court here in the US. Amazing that just a few years ago the same tolerant folks that support marriage "equality", where the very bigots that voted and signed DOMA into law.
Now we are asked about homosexuals in the Lodge. The same lodges that still prohibit our dark skinned brothers to visit and fellowship with us in many lodges throughout the US. In my opinion, lets worry about the truly oppressed, and those oppressed because of absolutely no fault of their own, and correct the inequities in our lodges with our PH brethren before we concern ourselves about those that if they would just keep private matters PRIVATE would have no problems with the vast majority of society.

You certainly make a valid point. However, this thread is not about racism within the Fraternity it is about the acceptance or non-acceptance of homosexual Brethren.


I will take this opportunity to remind all of the participants to Stay On Topic!
 
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crono782

Premium Member
I don't want to diverge the topic, but food for thought: man can you imagine if we had to someday address transgender as well? :/ What a mind frag that would be, hah.


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Heart of Stone

Registered User
Listen, I just gave my honest opinion on how I feel about homosexuals in the lodge, and I dont know for certain if their are any in my lodge.As far as G*d
I wasn't condemning them, I was stating my feelings.And if their are any in my lodge its not publicize or shared with everyone.Im just not comfortable with the kind that wants everybody to know their gay.I have a old school friend that's gay, and we still talk and hang out, and he's flaming with his lifestyle, but when we talk he doesn't act that like that.I have the upmost respect for G*ds creations.
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seanbenjamin

Registered User
I respect people's rights to have their views on this outside of lodge. But it doesn't seem like an appropriate topic for lodge or masonry. Personally I don't think that sexual orientation should have any factor on if someone should become a mason. How could one say this makes them less worthy or well qualified?


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sands67

Premium Member
It's okay the Brother has a valid question, there is no harm in asking. Surely you know what esoteric lines can and can not be crossed based upon the Obligations that you swore to abide by in your jurisdition.

According to the profile he is not a Mason. I do understand what you mean and thank you for the reminder.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I don't want to diverge the topic, but food for thought: man can you imagine if we had to someday address transgender as well?

That actually happened somewhere in California the year I was SW. After the surgeries she was prevailed upon to demit from lodge, much to the relief of everyone around as they did not want to put the issue on trial. But then she joined the Amaranth getting signers to state they'd known her all her life. They'd known him all his life up to the point she completed her surgeries. I have no idea if I'm getting the pronouns right.

The Amaranth was in a huge stink about it long after the expulsion trial. They asked for legislation to be put forward on the GL floor that year to include the words "natural born male" on the petition form. After a very brief discussion on the floor that it should be a private matter at the local level there was a vote. With around 1400 brothers in attendance it got a couple dozen yes votes. Down in flames.

Weird doesn't even begin to describe it. As a California Mason I look at myself in the mirror, laugh ironically and tell myself "Only in California could such a soap opera come to vote at GL". I'm pretty weird on some issues but that's on such a different scale it was mind boggling.
 
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relapse98

Registered User
I'm just want to hear brothers experience with this or if there are brothers who are on here.

I heard someone in our lodge make some pretty horrible comments about another brother that he presumed to be one of the above but I just chalked it up to an old man talking.

Also how do you receive/treat a brother who would be one of the above sexualities?

Same as any other brother.
 
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relapse98

Registered User
Re: Gay and Bi Brother Masons

I don't have a problem with the gay community, I just think if that individual was openly out and flamboyant with it, it could be a problem with the straight brothers.

I think if a straight man is openly out and flamboyant with it, it could be a problem.
 
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