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What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

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samelevel

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Everything in Masonry has served our brotherhood well..., I don't know what could be done to "change" when nothing really needs to be changed.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

This is the same attitude that I have seen for many years. Far too many Masons are convinced that everything is just fine, and there are no problems. But that is not the case. Membership is down, and continuing down. Lodges and grand Lodges are very slow to adopt new technologies. Administrative procedures are antiquated, and need to be brought up into the 21st Century.

We can keep true to our ancient landmarks, and still move Masonry into the 21st Century.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I wonder how many Masons, who are convinced that everything is just fine in the Craft, have recently attended a stated meeting of their lodge? Meetings (and the overall Masonic experience), are going to have to provide VALUE, else members will spend their leisure time elsewhere.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Meetings (and the overall Masonic experience), are going to have to provide VALUE, else members will spend their leisure time elsewhere.

Agreed 100%.

Men have always had outside competition for their leisure time and there are still 24 hours in a day. Those are the two constants over the last 50 years since the membership peak and today. So what has changed and how can Masonry adapt to meet those changes?

Society has definitely changed. The nuclear family is largely a thing of the past, where dad went to work and mom stays home to bake cookies. Community is no longer a priority because we now have the entire world at our fingertips. Meeting up with the fellas can now be done via Facebook or email, so the idea of a local boys only club seems archaic.

The phrase "going to the Lodge" used to carry a lot of weight. It was a sense of belonging and importance, but those days are gone also. Its not enough to just belong for the sake of belonging anymore. We can do all that digitally now.

Freemasonry will have to strike a balance between holding on to tradition and staying relevant if it will succeed in keeping current members interested while also attracting new ones.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Double thumbs up, Browncoat! When I suggest that Masonry make some changes in the administrative procedures, some Masons go "ballistic". The world we live in, is not "Leave it to Beaver". I cherish our Craft. I want to enjoy it in my retirement years, when I will have more time to devote to Freemasonry. No one advocates changing our ancient landmarks.
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

The math is simple, but some are so hellbent on their own opinion that they refuse to look at the basics... In the USA what is the most populated Generation inside Freemasonry? Is it the 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 50-60, or 60+ - at a guess im going to say 60+

What is the average take up age for new applicants? Lets say its 30-40

Now Lets go back to 30 years before the 1959 5M plus members, so 1929. What was the birth rate (%) in 1929 and what was the rate (%) of those took up Masonry?
60-70 years ago, what was the birth rate (%) and what rate (%) of those took up Masonry?
30-40 years ago, what was the birth rate (%) and what rate (%) of those are taking up Masonry?
This information is critical when analyzing membership rise/fall trends and can't be excluded or dismissed.

At a rough guess, yes i don't have exact numbers, but anyone can take a rough guess so:
If the 30-40's have a similar take up rate (%) as did the 60+ generation but have a lower birthrate, this equates to less members joining. Numbers = A (applicants)
If the 60+'s are the biggest generation in Masonry how many are leaving due to money issues, death or illness issues? Numbers = D (departing)
A - D is always going to give you less members each year and this is very noticeable du8e to having such a large number of members that are 60+'s departing Masonry



But, hey its only Math and statistics. Now let me be a little blunt and direct question to you cemab4y instead of just an open debate - EVERY time someone has a difference of opinion or a different of view you attack them, call them wrong and suggest that their opinion is deluded and has no value to the conversation whatsoever.

The great thing about open discussions is sharing idea's and concept in a respectful way and in "Brotherly" love, not questioning their integrity or value of opinion. I have said many time that I have no personal issue with IT helping in administration but some are not comfortable with it. Just because someone is not comfortable with IT does not give you or anyone the right to even consider throwing them out of the Fraternity as dead wood - They should be encouraged to stay as they have SO much rich experience and education to share and guide us all. Every Brother deserves our open respect and I find the idea of casting them away and insult to their many many years of service in ALL aspects of Freemasonry.


This is the same attitude that I have seen for many years. Far too many Masons are convinced that everything is just fine, and there are no problems. But that is not the case. Membership is down, and continuing down. Lodges and grand Lodges are very slow to adopt new technologies. Administrative procedures are antiquated, and need to be brought up into the 21st Century.

We can keep true to our ancient landmarks, and still move Masonry into the 21st Century.

So Far too many Masons (most maybe) are ALL wrong and your opinion is completely right?
Do you honestly believe that a computer and a website will fix everything with retaining memberships??


I wonder how many Masons, who are convinced that everything is just fine in the Craft, have recently attended a stated meeting of their lodge? Meetings (and the overall Masonic experience), are going to have to provide VALUE, else members will spend their leisure time elsewhere.

So its not about technology now, its what VALUE "you" are not getting from Masonry. I'm a little lost as to what your concern is, because it seems that you yourself are a little unsure.

Firstly you blame IT and then admit thats IT is not the main cause for a decline in numbers but its the lack of VALUE that meetings fail to provide.. Lets go back to the main cause for decline in numbers and what age group they come from? Im pretty sure that a 60+ person is not leaving because their lodge provides no value or has no website for that matter.. the same value has kept them as active members for 30+ years.

Masonry is Australia declined in membership numbers but then plateaued to its current figure. We too have an unbalanced age gap in the lodge and we will see a further drop as the aged fall out.. But i see a lot of young and vibrate members that are joining Lodges, Lodges that do not have websites "yet" or an electronic means of paying dues. These young members are joining for many reasons and I can assure you that it has nothing to do with a Lodge having a website. IT will naturally come in but as the old saying says - "NOTHING happens quickly in Freemasonry" - This is a famous saying and its famous for a reason.

Cemab4y, Its awesome to see the passion that you have for the survival Freemasonry but where is the love for all Brothers, regardless of opinion. A Brother is a Brother and we are all equal and we should all feel that our opinions count without being slammed because we share differences of opinions. Membership numbers are an issue for concern, but please dont be so rash to blame Masonry and claim that its broken without taking in all aspects of the discussion. If we all took a real look, accept all the facts and then study them, we will see where to move next. Those in Grand Lodges are slow to move as its far better to move slowly than rush in blinded to all the facts.

But, as was said before by someone else - It does not matter what anyone else thinks or says as some just refuse to even ponder or consider an opinion or discussion point that differs from their own. These different opinions or viewpoints are just throw aside and the Brothers are dismissed for being blind to the 1 point of view and based on that I am stepping out of this discussion and wish you all the very best with it.

With all respect, to ALL the contributors, I pass on my love and well wishes!
 

K3vin

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

My first post in this thread, by no means, had any intent to convey that Masonry does not have enough value in and of itself.

The point in my post was that we are not the only type of institution that has seen declining membership over the last 50 years.

My point is that we need to find ways of showing the public the value that we do posses as Masons, and by demonstrating that character we show people we are worth their time.

Kevin
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

You have repeatedly pushed your own agenda in this thread as well, Bro Darren, and armed with no more facts than anyone else.



Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to his own facts"- Daniel Patrick Moynihan (not a freemason). I have no problem with a brother presenting his opinions. I do have a problem with Masons who play "ostrich", and refuse to see that there is a problem.

The problems which Masonry is facing are many and varied. The solutions (if we choose to take them), are also many and varied. I do not claim, that technology alone, is some kind of "magic bullet" that will fix everything. Far from it.

I do claim, that a more efficient use of technology is part of the solution.

Masonry (and the appendants) need to take a "holistic" approach, and examine all of the problems which are facing masonry. And- show no cowardice in implementing any solution, which may work.

Example: I lived in Pennsylvania, 2000-2001. During the time that I resided there, I checked and learned that there were no "daylight lodges" anywhere in the state (at that time). Almost all states are experiencing a "graying" of the Masonic population, and that the average age of the membership is advancing. With the larger number of retired Masons, and the number of men who cannot get out at night, the need for "daylight" lodges is obvious.

Establishing lodges, where men can attend during the daylight hours, is NOT moving away from our ancient landmarks. It is more of an "adaptation", than a change.

Technology is PART of the solution. I would like to see grand Masters recording a monthly address to the membership by video, and then distributing the video to all members via the internet. Grand Lodges have published print newsletters for many years, moving to a "video newsletter", is an adaptation.

I would love for the moderate use of alcohol, to return to our lodges. The USA is the only country in the world where lodges are "dry".

I live in the area with the worst commute to work in the entire USA. I would love to see degree work on the weekends, because getting to lodge after two hours in the car, is difficult for many men.

Some Masons, myself included, say that instead of focusing on raw numbers, and just getting Masonry growing again, we should focus on quality not quantity. There is wisdom in this policy. But if we only rely on the random man, who stumbles across Masonry, have we not pitched quality out the window? If we were to permit recruiting, and inviting men of quality into our gentle Craft, we would have 100% control over the type of man who petitions! If you want quality men, you will have to invite quality men.
 

hidonmesahj

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I believe the fact that anyone can go online & look up the "secrets" of masonry kind of takes away from its former allure. Also, candidates are being black balled or turned down bc of very minor, very old issues that everyone except a computer database has forgotten. If u won't accept the technology to push the craft foward, at least don't use it to stop the numbers from growing.

Sent from my HTC One SV using My Freemasonry HD mobile app
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I believe the fact that anyone can go online & look up the "secrets" of masonry kind of takes away from its former allure.

No, not really. Whole books have been published divulging the "secrets" of Freemasonry for hundreds of years.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App
 

JohnnyFlotsam

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Do you really think that Masonry can go back to being a "gentleman's club" , and not being the fabulous fraternity it is today?
Maybe, maybe not, but I really wish it would. Mind, you by "gentleman's club" I take it mean an organization that exists to take good men and make them better. I define good men as those with (among other things) the ability and the desire to improve. The evidence is clear that there is precious little of that happening in most Lodges and appendant bodies.

Philanthropy is all well and good, so are big magnificent buildings. Truly. But if those things get in the way of the actual mission they need to go away. And believe you me, I have seen with my own eyes how the focus on a noble cause like the SR's speech disorder clinics has taken the focus away from the real reason that the Rite exists.

Masons are instructed to be charitable. Period. Nowhere are we taught that our organizations must serve as the conduit of that charity.
 

crono782

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Masons are instructed to be charitable. Period. Nowhere are we taught that our organizations must serve as the conduit of that charity.
Yes. I don't even see a problem with us being a conduit for charity. But when it transitions from being secondary in focus to primary, it has gotten out of scope.
 
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dfreybur

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

The math is simple, but some are so hellbent on their own opinion that they refuse to look at the basics... In the USA what is the most populated Generation inside Freemasonry? Is it the 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, 50-60, or 60+ - at a guess im going to say 60+

What is the average take up age for new applicants? Lets say its 30-40

Now Lets go back to 30 years before the 1959 5M plus members, so 1929. What was the birth rate (%) in 1929 and what was the rate (%) of those took up Masonry?
60-70 years ago, what was the birth rate (%) and what rate (%) of those took up Masonry?
30-40 years ago, what was the birth rate (%) and what rate (%) of those are taking up Masonry?
This information is critical when analyzing membership rise/fall trends and can't be excluded or dismissed.

At a rough guess, yes i don't have exact numbers, but anyone can take a rough guess so:
If the 30-40's have a similar take up rate (%) as did the 60+ generation but have a lower birthrate, this equates to less members joining. Numbers = A (applicants)
If the 60+'s are the biggest generation in Masonry how many are leaving due to money issues, death or illness issues? Numbers = D (departing)
A - D is always going to give you less members each year and this is very noticeable du8e to having such a large number of members that are 60+'s departing Masonry

But, hey its only Math and statistics.

In fact I have done exactly this numerical analysis for Illinois. I'm an engineer and a numbers guy - I want the data and I want to base my actions on the data. I went to the Illinois Lodge of Research library and spent an evening there looking through the Proceedings book for every decade since the jurisdiction was founded, plus for every year of the first decade and every year of the most recent decade. I recorded the numbers for membership, gains, losses, initiations, passings and raisings. Then I graphed the numbers and looked for meaningful patterns in the numbers. That's why I stress that total membership is a trailing indicator and thus only "predicts the past". What predicts the future is the leading indicator of either initiations or raisings.

Trailing indicators predict the past. Leading indicators predict the future. If you've ever heard these terms in business reports, employment reports and stock market reports, that's what they mean. There are indicators that trail and there are indicators that lead the economy.

I graphed the membership number. I graphed the initiations and raisings. For both graphs I divided by the population of the state from the Census (Available on line) so the graph showed percentage of the population. The shape of the membership curve matched the curve for the initiations and raisings but the membership curve lagged about 25-30 years. The shape of the initiations and raisings curve matched the membership curve but the raisings curve lead about 25-30 years.

The trend in raisings NOW very clearly tells us what the trend in membership will be 25-30 years in the future. Right now, the trend in raisings is up and has been up for a decade, more in some jurisdictions.

Fuss about membership all you want, you're looking at data that predicts what happened 25-30 years ago in raisings. Look to raisings and you will see the predictor of membership 25-30 in the future. I don't know about you but I have come to understand I can't do anything about what happened 25-30 years ago but I can work towards changing what will happen 25-30 years into the future.

I did this analysis. I went to the library and dug through the pre-Civil-War books. Any brother in any state can do the same at the Research lodge library in their own state. I urge folks in different states to do the same. Remember to get the state population from the Census and divide. The reason I tabulated by decade is the Census reports by decade so I had matching dates since Illinois was a territory not a state.

Part of my research before petitioning was to search for this type of demographic data. At the time I found an analysis for New Hampshire going back even further.

In Illinois what I saw were bumps in raisings after each war and matching bumps in membership 25-30 years after each war. In Illinois the size of the bump matched the size of the war. Illinois existed for the Blackhawk Wars, the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, DW1 and DW2. The only war that did not see a bump in raisings was Vietnam and sure enough that was the least popular war in our history.

Both WWI and WWII involved a larger percentage of the population than any war but the Civil War, plus they were about 30 years apart. The bump of raisings after WWI resulted in a membership peak during WWII that built on the bump in raisings after WWII. Those two bumps are why we have seen membership in decline ever since. But raisings are up again.

Retention - This is KEY. It helps little to raise droves only to have them leave.

Value - This is KEY. it has to be worth going to lodge. I go to lodge for the fellowship. Even if we never do more than pay the bills it was worth the trip to me to be among the brothers sharing the fellowship. In this my status is shared by many of the long term regulars at lodge, but we are a small minority among the brothers. Most need something else.

What else - That is the QUESTION. The answer has differed across time. We were a mystical order. We were a drinking and dining club. We were a mutual help society. We were a charity fund raising engine. We were a social club with events like bowling. As the generations passed the focus of most of Masonry has changed but some of all of those have remained. Ask the ten most recently raised brothers of your lodge if those the added value they expected to receive at lodge.

Then go do what it is they expected! And better still get them involved in doing it. Because they will get out of Masonry what they put into Masonry just like the rest of us do and did. So it may as well be what they want, not what we want or what we think they want.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

One change I would love to see: Almost everyone agrees that our "retention" rate is unacceptable. We lose more members to resignations/demits/suspensions, than we do to deaths. Solution- modify the retention rate.

We need to work with each new Mason. After the man is raised, we need to have him attend classes, where he can learn about Masonic history, and his place in the Craft. Each new Mason, needs to feel that he is important to Masonry, and that he is appreciated.

He needs to be given an opportunity to serve in an officer's capacity. He needs to be given opportunity to learn ritual, and how to participate in ritual.

We need to visit his wife, and inform her about what her husband can expect to contribute to the Craft, and how he (and his family) will benefit.

In short, we need to work all of our new Masons, and help them realize that Masonry will provide him with VALUE for his participation. If we hit these men "upstream", they will stay with us, for a solid Masonic career.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I agree, with one major difference... I feel it should begin sooner, after he is Initiated. By the time a Brother is Raised he should be a solid member of the Lodge.
 

Txmason

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I would like to see the ability to fundraise more than twice a year. Hold an open house (Mass does this ) you invite the public to your the lodge and ask questions.

Also the ability to wear our aprons if we participate in parades and have a banner too. Also allow for more public relations in the newspapers.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Also the ability to wear our aprons if we participate in parades and have a banner too. Also allow for more public relations in the newspapers.

Aren't apron marches allowed by dispensation from the GM in Texas? They are done to the annual meeting at the Alamo at least so it has to be allowed.

One of my lodges marches in our aprons at the town 4th of July parade each year complete with our dispensation sent by email. Given how rare apron marches were, I organized it the first year, went through the dispensation process and documented it so it's now forwarding an email to the Gr Sec office to get it. Now that it's every year our email is expected and rubber stamped by whoever it is the MW GM designates to do them. We've gotten either a petition or a brother returning to activity from the march each year so far.
 

cacarter

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

My lodge in Forney was granted dispensation to wear jewels and aprons while on the lodge's float in the homecoming parade. From the sounds of it, it worked great and was a positive public image for the lodge.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I've been in several processions to a house of worship on St. John's Day; there are always a broad spectrum of reactions to that.
 
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