My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Theosophical Society

SeattleMason0613

Registered User
I'm just looking for everyone opinion on the subject. I heard there was some bad blood between freemasonry and the society but haven't been able to dig up any info. Thoughts?
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I haven't heard of either connection or hard feelings. The Theosophical Society has centers in Pasadena, CA and Wheaton, IL. I've lived close to both but never entered either center. They appear to be separate societies based in each of those locations. The Weathon one appears to have local chapters in Texas that hold events open to the public so they would be easily studied.

http://www.theosophical.org/ http://theosociety.org/

Just another mystical society by the looks. The usual article describing why they aren't a religion. A Yahoo search pointed me to the usual article why they are a cult. I can imagine individual Masons having issues with them but they appear to make any claims to make Masons so there is no association with Masonry that would put them at loggerheads with our organizations.

The symbol of the Pasadena based order is bizarre. An Ohm, a Buddhist temple symbol, a Norse/Germanic world worm, a six point star in two different colors, an Egyptian Ankh. If the symbol is expressive of their teachings the system is quite a Rube Goldberg contraption cobbled together from all over the place, not that that is unique among mystical or religious systems.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
The reality seems to be that the foundation of Theosophy involved a lot of individual Masons rather than there being any institutional connection. Of course, if one looks at anything that started in Britain during the middle to late 19th century and involved influential men, one could say that same thing about that, too.
 

SeattleMason0613

Registered User
I like the idea of the open minded discussion of the various topics it advertises but might be to mystical for me. Thanks for the info...just wanted to make sure there wasn't any feud between it and masonry, before I look further into it.
 

Shahkem

Registered User
I like the idea of the open minded discussion of the various topics it advertises but might be to mystical for me. Thanks for the info...just wanted to make sure there wasn't any feud between it and masonry, before I look further into it.

I studied Theosophy for years. I absolutely love it! The founder was a woman, so she wasn't a Freemason, however, she definitely studied the esoteric elements of Freemasonry. I'm not sure how a conflict could exist between our Craft and Theosophy, especially being that it was Theosophy that led me to Freemasonry! Theosophy embodies the principles of our Craft as it related to the Universality of immutable truths expounded in all religions. In a nut shell, Theosophy teaches that, "there is a common thread that runs through all of the major religions". And the aim of the Theosophist is to identify that thread!


Sent From My Freemasonry Pro App
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Do be cautious when reading Blavatsky, though. Her modern followers have moved beyond her, but she made a big point of extolling the "Aryan race" as the best iteration of humanity to date, and that perfection would come from them. She considered Africans, Jews, and Chinese to be of one race, both being relics of the "Atlantean race", which had degenerated and was no longer the high point of human existence. The next race of humanity was to be brought about by eugenics within the Aryan race.

This is all from Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" and Powell's "The Solar System". The latter work was published in 1930, so Theosophy did not shed its racialist doctrines until quite recently.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
I haven't heard of either connection or hard feelings. The Theosophical Society has centers in Pasadena, CA and Wheaton, IL. I've lived close to both but never entered either center. They appear to be separate societies based in each of those locations.

They are distinct and have been for more than a century. The one in California either schismed or was "more true" in 1875. The one in Illinois is a representative of the headquarters in India, which either "fell away" or "retains the truth". Basically, you could look at the California group as the "Protestant Theosophists" and the Illinois/India group as the "Catholic Theosophists". A Theosophist has written a short (and apparently very fair) essay with a diagram of several of the American Theosophical groups:

http://www.theosophical.org/files/about/FamilyTreeTheosophy.pdf
 

cherrynobel

Registered User
Theosophical society has a link with co-freemasonary.The idea of the society was spread by Anne Beasant who also was a co-freemason and formed it's headquarter in chennai(madras),India.Theosophical society had some prominent freemason like A.O Hume who is also the founder of india oldest and the current ruling political party the indian national congress and many famous early indian congressman like W.C banerjee(first congress president),C.R Das,motilal Nehru and many more who where both freemason and part of theosophical society.I read somewhere that there was some friction between freemasons and theosophical society butthe article was very vague.In present times the theosophical society is less active but it's daughter organisation the Arya samaj society is quite active in india and some other countries and mostly deals with charity works
 
  • Like
Reactions: GKA

dfreybur

Premium Member
I like the idea of the open minded discussion of the various topics it advertises but might be to mystical for me.

There are folks who find Masonry too mystical for them. Some of these folks become Masonry then deny or ignore the mystical content. The mystical content is there whether you deny or ignore it. But it is with the mystical as it is with any sort of knowledge - If you ignore it you continue to live your life as before without effect that is visible to you.

In a nut shell, Theosophy teaches that, "there is a common thread that runs through all of the major religions". And the aim of the Theosophist is to identify that thread!

There is a book "God is Not One" that I just downloaded in Kindle format. In opposition to the Theosophical approach it suggests that each major religion answers a different set of questions and therefore there is no such thread. I'll need to read the book in the next couple of months but I suspect the two viewpoints are independent of each other. One is about the Divine which underlies faiths; the other is about the human practices and teachings.

Do be cautious when reading Blavatsky, though. Her modern followers have moved beyond her, but she made a big point of extolling the "Aryan race" as the best iteration of humanity to date ...

There are caveats that she refers to the teachings of cultures and philosophies not to the people from the various regions. It's a dodge that does not ring well with me in this post-WWII world. Her followers need to have moved well beyond her on this topic.

A Theosophist has written a short (and apparently very fair) essay with a diagram of several of the American Theosophical groups:

http://www.theosophical.org/files/about/FamilyTreeTheosophy.pdf

Five pages so it was a quick read. Thank you!
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
I was just about to start a thread on the Theosophical Society when I found this one. Gotta love that search function.

The little I've read so far was very interesting. In fact, it seems that it extols many of the ideas that I had already reached after a great deal of study and research. I'm curious about investigating it further, but am unsure of what it's really like. Between some leaders' support of an Aryan super race to the World Teacher Project and a few other factors over the years, it's easy to see how good ideas can go awry.
Shahkem, you mentioned that you are a member, can you share some of your experiences?
 

LAMason

Premium Member
I have only looked at what I consider to be the basic tenets/beliefs of Theosophy, but I do not see anything at that level that would be incompatible with Freemasonry.

It did bring to mind some questions that I had not thought about in awhile:

1. What about someone who believes in a Supreme Being, but does not identify in any way with a specific religion and does not have or believe in any VSL?

2. Do all Grand Lodges require a belief in the "immortality of the Soul and a resurrection thereof to future life"?
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
I have only looked at what I consider to be the basic tenets/beliefs of Theosophy, but I do not see anything at that level that would be incompatible with Freemasonry.

It did bring to mind some questions that I had not thought about in awhile:

1. What about someone who believes in a Supreme Being, but does not identify in any way with a specific religion and does not have or believe in any VSL?

2. Do all Grand Lodges require a belief in the "immortality of the Soul and a resurrection thereof to future life"?
1) To the best of my knowledge, belief in a VSL is not required. However, it does leave a bit of a gap. I suppose it is up to each individual to decide what that VSL is for them, even if it is unwritten.
2) I had never heard of ANY GL with that requirement.
 

LAMason

Premium Member
1) To the best of my knowledge, belief in a VSL is not required. However, it does leave a bit of a gap. I suppose it is up to each individual to decide what that VSL is for them, even if it is unwritten.
2) I had never heard of ANY GL with that requirement.

We are required to take the Obligations on our VSL, so if someone does not have one what would they do?

While it is not mentioned on the Grand Lodge of Louisiana Petition for Degrees it is one of the Landmarks adopted by the Grand Lodge and contained in the Handbook of Masonic Law:

LANDMARKS RECOGNIZED BY THE GRAND LODGE OF LOUISIANA (Adopted February 14, 1989)

18. A belief in the existence ofGod, in the immortality of the Soul and a resurrection thereof to future life.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
We are required to take the Obligations on our VSL, so if someone does not have one what would they do?

While it is not mentioned on the Grand Lodge of Louisiana Petition for Degrees it is one of the Landmarks adopted by the Grand Lodge and contained in the Handbook of Masonic Law:

LANDMARKS RECOGNIZED BY THE GRAND LODGE OF LOUISIANA (Adopted February 14, 1989)

18. A belief in the existence ofGod, in the immortality of the Soul and a resurrection thereof to future life.
Well, regarding the VSL, we're required to take the Obligation on A VSL, but that doesn't mean that one must believe in it. I could swear an oath with my hand resting on one of the Harry Potter books. To me, my oath is no less binding based on what I'm touching at the time.

Regarding your Grand Lodge, that is very interesting. While there probably aren't very many people out there who believe in a supreme being but not an afterlife, the fact that a man could be made a Mason in a regular lodge in one state but not another is interesting.
 

GKA

Premium Member
As it was so well stated by Cherrynoble, the point of contention seems to be the making of a Women Mason
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
We are required to take the Obligations on our VSL, so if someone does not have one what would they do?

The degree puts your hands on the VSL that is on the altar. If you don't ask for a specific one, you get the one that is usually on the altar. All that's required is that the candidate be willing to continue at that point. In my first degree I went in cold. I didn't even know there was a Bible on the altar that I was going to put my hands on. I thought it a nice touch that added to the solemnity of the degree ceremony.

Having experienced a VSL on the altar in his first degree, all that's required is he not be bothered by it being there for his second and third degrees.

Sure, a man can request his own VSL. It's pretty cool to be at a degree where he does. But most candidates use the VSL that is there and we have no way of telling how many have that particular physical book as their own, how many don't have a VSL in mind, how many have some other physical book in mind and understand the symbolism, how many figure an oath is binding no matter what book and that it's a good idea to have a book loved by the local majority.

While it is not mentioned on the Grand Lodge of Louisiana Petition for Degrees it is one of the Landmarks adopted by the Grand Lodge and contained in the Handbook of Masonic Law:
LANDMARKS RECOGNIZED BY THE GRAND LODGE OF LOUISIANA (Adopted February 14, 1989)
18. A belief in the existence of God, in the immortality of the Soul and a resurrection thereof to future life.

Not all GLs have a list of landmarks at all. Among the GLs that do, not all include a reference to an afterlife. It's common but not universal to require a belief in a continued existence. This is why it gets phrased "a continued existence" at times to be as general as possible.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
To circle back around to the Theosophy aspect, if we accept that all religions are telling the same story, then all religious books are essentially different translations of the same story. At that point, what does it matter which book it is?
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
To circle back around to the Theosophy aspect, if we accept that all religions are telling the same story, then all religious books are essentially different translations of the same story.

It's a pretty big "if" to accept that all religions are telling the same story, or even that they all have the same principles at their core. That's a Romance era idea that does not survive careful study. Far better the Masonic approach that we accept men of faith and don't discuss the topic in detail. There's far too much chance for conflict if we start telling men what their own faith means.

At that point, what does it matter which book it is?

Going with the big "if", sure.

To many men an oath is binding no matter what was present when they took that oath on themselves. To such men the book serves as an amplification.

To some men it matters which book is under their hands when they take an oath. This is why we keep open the option to bring your own VSL. To some men it matters which book is on the altar when they witness a degree. This is why rules for other books are different in different jurisdictions. There is potential for conflict in these two stances with tolerance as the key to its resolution.

Tolerance is not agreement. Tolerance is mutual peace. Tolerance is not acceptance. Tolerance is working together.

We end up with a lesson that goes something like this - That man has a place in his heart where he holds something sacred, as I also have a place in my heart where I hold something sacred. What he holds there is different than what I hold sacred. We still have common ground to be brothers.

Experiencing a degree with a different VSL seems to be easier for some than for others. Yet all brothers I have been with in degrees with different VSLs have managed it just fine.
 

Roy_

Registered User
Theosophy... I ran into it when I was about 15 and have studied it for a year or 5,6,7, also its 'spin-off' Anthroposophy. On the long run I found the approach too syncretistic rather than sythetic. It did give me my startup for 'spiritual research' so I am not as negative about it as some are.

There is a whole lot to discuss about it that might or might not be fitting on this board. Blavatsky's theories of "(root) races", "epochs" and the like; the "Great White Brotherhood" (an idea copied by many early Freemason(-like organsations)s; the One Source for all religions (not as simple as recaptured above), etc.

The link to Freemasonry. Also as stated above, Theosophy had a big part in the early days of Le Droit Humain. Georges Martin started his mixed Freemasonry lodge and wrote an atheistic Rite for it. When the number of members did not reach his expected growth rate, he called in the Theosophists, being Annie Besant and Charles Leadbeater. These two wrote a new Rite based on an English Rite, but with many theosophical elements. From then on LDH attracted many Theosophists. Besant and Leadbeater also helped to found the first LDH lodges in my own country (Netherlands). As time passed, new members found the Rite too theosophistic and started to rewrite it again. In the Netherlands it was fashioned after the Rite of the Grand Orient. Some friction resulted in lodges that left LDH and eventually in LDH giving their lodges the option between three Rites. The "French" Rite or "Rite Moderne" which is the atheistic Rite of Martin; an "English" Rite which is the Theosophic Rite and a "Scottish" Rite (by and far the largest) which is the most 'normal' Rite.

Other than mixed Freemasonry, in the early 20th century also the Grand Orient was heavily under the influence of Theosophy as it was mightily popular in those days. The Rite has almost been rewritten to make it better fit Theosophic idea, but this was prevented in the end (yet the Rite has been rewritten in those days). This caused some Theosophists to leave their lodges dissattisfied, others undoubtely remained members of their lodges.

There may be no official ties between the two (or more) organistions, but at least in my country the Theosophical Society has always had an interest in Freemasonry (especially the mixed kind that they helped) judging their library. Also undoubtely there will be overlap in members, but this is not different with any other organisation.

I cannot tell for each and every country, but I can imagine things having been similar in other countries.
 
Top