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Are they Clandistine?

ndfire83

Registered User
Brother's,
I am a Mason A.'. F.'. & A.'. M.'. GL of North Dakota. My father-in-law go me into Masonry. He is a dual member GL of Texas and GL of ND. He told me that F. & A.M. was clandistine. I am also a memeber of the Shrine, who accepts F & AM masons? How does that work?
 

owls84

Moderator
Premium Member
No this is a Masonic Myth and a great Question. There is a history that I am sure a Brother is going to share talking about how there were two Grand Lodges one AF&AM and one F&AM and depending on who grants your charter is the one you take. But even this is not true because the Grand Lodge of Louisianna granted the Grand Lodge of Texas thier charter and LA is F&AM and TX is AF&AM.

I have heard this said from a member that just flat out didn't know any better and he was saying all F&AM are Prince Hall which is not true either. Best thing for you to do Brother is contact your Secretary or before discussing anything Masonic (meaning esoteric work not how does your lodge do a fundraiser) you ask if your Lodge recognizes them or vice versa. Does that help?
 

Sirius

Registered User
It has more to do with the 'Ancients' and the 'Moderns' centuries ago. Simply put, AF&AM or F&AM amounts to a name, nothing more. A GL may call it's self AF&AM and be completely irregular.
 

js4253

Premium Member
Premium Member
Brother's,
I am a Mason A.'. F.'. & A.'. M.'. GL of North Dakota. My father-in-law go me into Masonry. He is a dual member GL of Texas and GL of ND. He told me that F. & A.M. was clandistine. I am also a memeber of the Shrine, who accepts F & AM masons? How does that work?

We have a book at all GLOT Lodges called "List of Lodges Masonic" that lists every Lodge in the world (and there are lots of them) that is recognized by the Grand Lodge. We are supposed to use the book when we receive visitors to verify their eligibility. If their Lodge is not in that book, they can not visit. We don't seem to be educating our members about the use of this book because this is not the first time we have discussed it on this forum. Anyway, talk to your secretary, I'll bet he has a book similar to ours.

AF & AM,F & AM has nothing to do with whether they are recognized. But, if they are not listed in the book, they are considered by GLOT to be clandestine.
 

ndfire83

Registered User
Thank you to all. This has hwlp me to understand a little better. I think a person even after they are raised learns more about Masonry every time you ask a question.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
We have a book at all GLOT Lodges called "List of Lodges Masonic" that lists every Lodge in the world (and there are lots of them) that is recognized by the Grand Lodge. <snip> We don't seem to be educating our members about the use of this book because this is not the first time we have discussed it on this forum.

I don't understand that- it's taught in the A.L.L. program which we are SUPPOSED to put all newly-raised MM's through within 90 days of their raising!
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
Two reasons I think:

Its not being used (ALL or LIFE for that matter)

Most of the requests have come from Brothers outside of Texas.
 

ndfire83

Registered User
The programs you are talking about the ALL or LIFE. I don't know anything about that. I will say it again, I am a MM in North Dakota, we don't have such programs, but maybe we should. In three years I will be Master of my Lodge, in about five years I will be on the Grand Line. I am know on one of the grand Line Committees. So,any thing that I can find to help educate |I would be most grateful for.
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
The programs you are talking about the ALL or LIFE. I don't know anything about that. I will say it again, I am a MM in North Dakota, we don't have such programs, but maybe we should. In three years I will be Master of my Lodge, in about five years I will be on the Grand Line. I am know on one of the grand Line Committees. So,any thing that I can find to help educate |I would be most grateful for.

If you will post the Lodge name, number and city I will be more than happy to look the Lodge up in "Lodges Masonic" and put the question to bed.

Just let me know.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
The programs you are talking about the ALL or LIFE. I don't know anything about that. I will say it again, I am a MM in North Dakota, we don't have such programs, but maybe we should.

Both of these are programs of the Grand Lodge of Texas. The Additional Lodge Light (A.L.L.) program is to be given to all MM's within 90 days of their raising. It comprises basic knowledge all MM's should have, such as how to use the List of Lodges Masonic & the Directory of Constituent Lodges in Texas in order to verify that a visitor is not clandestine.

The L.I.F.E. (Lodge Instruction for Effectiveness (or something like that)) is for Brethren going into the chairs. There are 3 sections to it- Preparing to be JW, SW, & WM. GLoT requires that incoming WM's must have either completed the L.I.F.E. program or attended a Wardens' Retreat for the training prior to installation.

Your Grand Secretary should be able to get the books for the coursework of these programs from our Grand Secretary, if you'd like to have them. There's probably a nominal charge for them, but not too much.
 

ndfire83

Registered User
Thanks for the info. I will talk to the Grand Sec. We have a quarterly meeting in Sept. I can talk to him then. |I would like to thank every one for all the good information I have received.
 

A7V

Registered User
My Hawaiian Lodge is F&AM as is every lodge in Hawaii. I visit Patterson Lodge 1177 AF&AM here in San Antonio all the time. If there were any issues I am sure they wouldn't allow this.
 
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