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Who made up all the stories?

Lowcarbjc

Registered User
It seems like many of the stories used for the rituals etc are based on real people and places although a lot simply seems to be invented to demonstrate an idea, morals etc. Now from what I know so far is that these stories are not totally random but kinda following or in some sequence and connection with each other.

I'm wondering, (1)were these stories told by real stone masons too or at what stage did (2) WHO decided to write and make up everything?

I know the true roots of masonry is not known but who wrote the stories/legends that are so nicely connected?

BTW this question derived from me watching a documentary about the council of nicea where it was apparently decided what books should be included in the Bible and what not. It made me wonder if a bunch of guys maybe also got together and decided what modern freemasonry should be about and what not.


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crono782

Premium Member
A lot of Masonic writings will themselves state that much if not all the legends are allegorical in nature rather than literal.


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JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
This question is the source of 100s of lectures and 1000s of research articles... tough to answer. Maybe someone on a computer could cite some resources to get you started.

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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Considering how much the rituals have changed during the recorded history of Freemasonry, it's almost impossible to know where they began. No one can actually agree on when they began.
 

Lowcarbjc

Registered User
I grabbed The Hiram Key book again tonight and read some chapters much to my surprise to find that everything might after all not be "stories" but be based on real events that happened long before King Solomon's temple, that have been adopted to fit into that time frame.

Fricken interesting read, although I think a lot of total speculation too?


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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I personally will neither read, nor recommend, anything with Lomas's name on it. From what I've seen, it's either plagiarised or pure speculation.
 
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Lowcarbjc

Registered User
Aren't most historic book guilty of some elements of plagiarisation? Does it really matter what sources were used (apart now from the speculative conclusions) to the reader? :)


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BryanMaloney

Premium Member
It seems like many of the stories used for the rituals etc are based on real people and places although a lot simply seems to be invented to demonstrate an idea, morals etc. Now from what I know so far is that these stories are not totally random but kinda following or in some sequence and connection with each other.

I'm wondering, (1)were these stories told by real stone masons too or at what stage did (2) WHO decided to write and make up everything?

I know the true roots of masonry is not known but who wrote the stories/legends that are so nicely connected?

BTW this question derived from me watching a documentary about the council of nicea where it was apparently decided what books should be included in the Bible and what not. It made me wonder if a bunch of guys maybe also got together and decided what modern freemasonry should be about and what not.


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Pet peeve: The Council at Nicea did not decide anything at all about the Canon of Scripture. That tired old lie has long since been disproved.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Aren't most historic book guilty of some elements of plagiarisation? Does it really matter what sources were used (apart now from the speculative conclusions) to the reader? :)


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Plagiarism is not the same thing as openly referring to a source. A plagiarist presents someone else's data or work as if it were his own. Plagiarism is theft and lying. Indulging in it is immoral and anti-Masonic. Likewise, sources ALWAYS matter--if truth matters.
 

Lowcarbjc

Registered User
I was of the understanding that The Hiram Key shows the sources used at the end of each chapter - thought that would rule plagiarisation out to some extend. Surely for a book like that it's rather obvious that the writers researched sources, the whole book is about research not just some story - I'm only at chapter 8, maybe I am missing the point?


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JJones

Moderator
I can't answer the first question but...

(2) WHO decided to write and make up everything?

It's very probable that the ritual changed as Freemasonry adapted from operative lodges to taverns to the lodge rooms we have today. There were also variations in the ritual that stemmed from geography...this still exists in fact but it was likely more often to occur back when parts of the world were more isolated from one another (meaning travel and communication with other parts of the world was more difficult or rare).

Blue Lodge ritual practiced most often in the USA is sometimes called Preston-Webb ritual. Here's some links:

http://grandlodgeofiowa.org/docs/Articles/TheWebbRitualintheUnitedStates.pdf

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/american.html

Hope that's helpful.

Pet peeve: The Council at Nicea did not decide anything at all about the Canon of Scripture. That tired old lie has long since been disproved.

Not to derail the thread but if the Council didn't then I'm curious who did?
 
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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Preston-Webb (oh, there is a can of worms) is from the late 18th-century, so is still just a variation on a theme. And Lomas has been accused of merely reworking research done by Michael Baigent. Baigent was (if I remember correctly) Grand Orator of UGLE, and considerably more knowledgeable on the subject than Lomas will ever be.
 
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jwhoff

Premium Member
Preston-Webb (oh, there is a can of worms) is from the late 18th-century, so is still just a variation on a theme. And Lomas has been accused of merely reworking research done by Michael Baigent. Baigent was (if I remember correctly) Grand Orator of UGLE, and considerably more knowledgeable on the subject than Lomas will ever be.

Ditto that! You are quite right Brother.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
It seems like many of the stories used for the rituals etc are based on real people and places although a lot simply seems to be invented to demonstrate an idea, morals etc. Now from what I know so far is that these stories are not totally random but kinda following or in some sequence and connection with each other.

I'm wondering, (1)were these stories told by real stone masons too or at what stage did (2) WHO decided to write and make up everything?

It's all made up. That's the nature of allegory. You take what is known and put bits and pieces together to communicate things that go beyond the superficial. The sooner you can see this, the quicker you can avoid being distracted by wild theories and start focusing upon what is being alluded to by the allegories.

I know the true roots of masonry is not known but who wrote the stories/legends that are so nicely connected?
The roots of Masonry go back to when men first started to build with stone. The roots of Freemasonry, well for that answer you have to understand what "The Craft" actually is. You might want to check out a little book that I wrote recently on that very subject.

BTW this question derived from me watching a documentary about the council of nicea where it was apparently decided what books should be included in the Bible and what not. It made me wonder if a bunch of guys maybe also got together and decided what modern freemasonry should be about and what not.


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You are on the right path. The answer is yes. But you have to dig to find out why, when and who. The answer is there, hidden in plain sight.
 
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pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
You guys must get to so bored with me, it seems that I am always recommending the same books. In response to the "Where did it all come from?" question I always recommend THE PHILOSOPHY OF MASONRY by Brother Roscoe Pound. This book does not address the origin of the ritual specifically. What it does do well is to examine the lives and perspectives of the four men whose ideas of Masonry have shaped the Craft as we know it today. Two of these men, William Preston and Albert Pike should be known to all Masons. The other two, Karl Christian Friedrich Krause and George Oliver were virtually unknown to me. The book asks how would each of these men have answered the following questions:

1. What is the nature and purpose of Masonry as an institution? For what does it exist? What does it seek to do?

2. What is the relation of Masonry to other human institutions? What is its place in a rational scheme of human activities?

3. What are the fundamental principles by which Masonry is governed in attaining the end it seeks?

Once I began to get a perspective on what the shapers of Masonry were trying to do make it into, I got a better perspective on the thing itself. The book is available for free from many places on the web. The version I enjoy reading is here: https://archive.org/stream/cu31924030286466#page/n0/mode/2up Click on the cover to get started.
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
It's all made up. That's the nature of allegory. You take what is known and put bits and pieces together to communicate things that go beyond the superficial. The sooner you can see this, the quicker you can avoid being distracted by wild theories and start focusing upon what is being alluded to by the allegories.


That's a mouth full Doc! Maybe we should consider your statement while toiling in the PROFANE world.

"distracted by wild theories"

WOW!
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
That's a mouth full Doc! Maybe we should consider your statement while toiling in the PROFANE world.

"distracted by wild theories"

WOW!
Yup. Wonderland it a fun and even exciting place to visit, but to live there and set up shop there were never the reasons for it being created in the first place.
 
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