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Are You Really a MM?

CLewey44

Registered User
Life is full of surprises :)

I would think a history debate would be moot (although no doubt interesting). Freemasonry's ceremonies take inspiration from all sort of "history" but presented as "traditional history" or myth. What someone thought when composing the ceremonies of appendant orders or indeed the Craft itself, might not survive historic examination, the Orders of Freemasonry are narratives and delivery tools for values and stories, they are not "history". That's why I've not got a problem that early Craft Freemasonry switched from the story of Noah to the building of King Solomon's Temple.

Excellent points, brother.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Weel, yes, but.., let me tell you a story:
When I petitioned for the degrees in 1993, I called my father and asked if he was still in Mason. In a voice some want tinged with surprise, he indicated "yes, I pay my dues each year."
Forward on to about four years later, and he came out to visit us and in a short week attended a degree in which I obligated, a Job's Daughters meeting, and a National Sojourners meeting. Before the lodge meeting, he had me review the signs with him repeatedly, as he had not been in some 25 years.
He went back home, became active in the lodge, and in his 60s, went through the chairs, beginning as a steward. I then had the pleasure of installing him in the East. He subsequently served as chaplain of Akdar Shrine and President of the Greeters. He drove children to the Shreveport Hospitak. Forward on a number of years and I sat in the Grand East as he was given his 50 year pin.
I think the lesson would be that sometimes the worker is scared to go back to the quarry or awaiting an invitation. With a nudge, he can become productive.
Great!
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
One would say that you're technically not a MM until you've gone through RAM!

What are your thoughts?
Technically? Based upon what jurisdiction's assessment? According to mine, if you're labeled a "Master Mason", you're a Master Mason, regardless of your lack of skill and Mastery.

From what is told to me about RAM, it's a leftover from the Antient-Modern wars that raged on during the 1700s and early 1800s. The Antients used it as a hook to get men to buy into getting what was lost.

Unfortunately, what is offered does not pass the acid test and therefore falls into the category of further drama-fantasy but not more Light.

What do I say about not being a MM unless RAMed? Bunk!

F&S,

Bro. "Coach" Nagy
 

CLewey44

Registered User
Technically? Based upon what jurisdiction's assessment? According to mine, if you're labeled a "Master Mason", you're a Master Mason, regardless of your lack of skill and Mastery.

From what is told to me about RAM, it's a leftover from the Antient-Modern wars that raged on during the 1700s and early 1800s. The Antients used it as a hook to get men to buy into getting what was lost.

Unfortunately, what is offered does not pass the acid test and therefore falls into the category of further drama-fantasy but not more Light.

What do I say about not being a MM unless RAMed? Bunk!

F&S,

Bro. "Coach" Nagy

Yeah the initial seemed a bit on the snoody side maybe. I doubt that's what he meant but who knows? Blue Lodgers strongly believe they are MMs and in order for SOME of the RAM or SR members to feel they got their money's worth, they probably downplay blue lodge Masonry. 99% probably do not feel that way but always a few people with ego problems and loving the feeling of "I know something I won't tell!" In other words, having information that others don't, gives some people a sense of power. Again, not saying this individual thinks that, but I know some people do.

On the other hand, I definitely would like to receive the RAM/YR degrees and SR someday. I have plenty in front of me for now and that onion I keep peeling back is never ending.
 

Mel Knight

Registered User
Yeah the initial seemed a bit on the snoody side maybe. I doubt that's what he meant but who knows? Blue Lodgers strongly believe they are MMs and in order for SOME of the RAM or SR members to feel they got their money's worth, they probably downplay blue lodge Masonry. 99% probably do not feel that way but always a few people with ego problems and loving the feeling of "I know something I won't tell!" In other words, having information that others don't, gives some people a sense of power. Again, not saying this individual thinks that, but I know some people do.

On the other hand, I definitely would like to receive the RAM/YR degrees and SR someday. I have plenty in front of me for now and that onion I keep peeling back is never ending.

I do apologize if it came across on the snooty side, my comment is free of ego.

I'm not questioning nor challenging Brothers character.

This was a conversation I was listening to amongst a few brothers. One brother stated that "symbolically you're technically not a MM until you've received your RA degree"

I wanted to know what others thought about that statement.
 

youngsandy

Registered User
From my understanding in ancient craft masonry the HRAM degrees where part of what is now in the US blue lodge there was no separation of the two house they where done together ...this is a loaded question it depends on how you look at it imo
Over here Lodges used to work all the degrees up to and including KT. The secret societies act put a stop to that http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/prescott15.html . Lodges work the three degrees including the Mark. The Mark is seen as being part of the second degree. To complicate things further the Mark belongs to the Royal Arch, an agreement between Supreme and Grand Lodge allows the Lodges to confer the Mark and those receiving the Mark must be MMs.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I do apologize if it came across on the snooty side, my comment is free of ego.
I'm not questioning nor challenging Brothers character.
This was a conversation I was listening to amongst a few brothers. One brother stated that "symbolically you're technically not a MM until you've received your RA degree"
I wanted to know what others thought about that statement.
Do you know now? :D
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Lol....very true.
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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
I like to think that Masonic Science appears somewhere and that occasionally one of The Seven Masons that make a lodge perfect does actually visit a human lodge.
What? Dude have you been evaluated for mental stability? Your posts remind me of the alien guy from the history channel. The only thing ive ever heard about 7 masons is the number to open a lodge on a certain degree. Never heard anything about them making a lodge perfect or human lodges......

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

Bloke

Premium Member
... The only thing ive ever heard about 7 masons is the number to open a lodge on a certain degree. Never heard anything about them making a lodge perfect or human lodges......

It's in our Emulation based ritual - 7 masons make a lodge perfect. He's also referencing the 7 Liberal Arts and Sciences.. and the metaphysics & supernatural of Freemasonry. Not necessarily something I subscribe to, but for many, the lodge room and its experiences are spiritual (but not religious)... I think James would be alluding to that.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Quite a number of brethren have said that to me on various forums.

My own view is that potentially everything done in Freemasonry is symbolic, and am prepared to go down quite a few dry gullies rather than miss something important.

I see it as a lifestyle choice.
Sounds good.
 
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