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Northern Jurisdiction or Southern Jurisdiction?

flameburns623

Registered User
So: I live in the Greater St. Louis area, on the Illinois side. The Metropolitan area sits astraddle the Mississippi River.

Illinois is in the Northern Masonic Jusdiction, Missouri is in the Southern. The closest Scottish Rite Valley on 'my side of the River' is in Belleville, probably 30+ miles south.

The closest Missouri side Valley is just down the street from the VA hospital, perhaps eighteen miles away.

Apparently, I am free to become a member of the Scottish Rite through either Jurisdiction. (Or, both).

I have probably the strongest predisposition for the Southern Jurisdiction. Belonging to both, given constraints of time and costs of dues etcetera, doesn't seem prudent.

Advantages of joining the Southern Jurisdiction, for me, include:

1. Proximity. Obviously, the St. Louis Valley is much closer, assuring that I could be more active.

2. Heritage: I am a native of Missouri, despite having lived in Illinois since 1994. My grandfather and an uncle were Scottish Rite Freemasons, down in SW Missouri (presumably the Valley of Joplin, unless there have been changes since the 1970's). Part of my reason for belonging is to honor their memories. Being part of their Jurisdiction would complement that.

3. The Southern Jurisdiction gives out a handy 'decoder ring' (just joking, but the ring is nice). And, a book.

Reasons for joining the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction:

1. Most of my Masonic brethren are likely to go to Bellevile. So far as I can tell, most Illinoians prefer NOT to cross the Great Wet Wall of the Midwest, any more than needful, even today. Natives of each side of that watery line of demarcation tend to talk tripe about 'The Other Side': those other folks drive worse, their road signage sucks, their communities are more dangerous, they're so everlastingly far away. I live here (in Illinois) and want to form bonds within my own community. That is another reason I became a Mason

2. The NMJ offers a correspondence course on the degree work, a good feature. When I took my York degrees, they went through everything so quickly it was tough to absorb everything.

3. The Northern Masonic Jurisdiction includes among it's benevolent endeavors, charitable outreach for those afflicted with schizophrenia. I have close family and friends beset with this, I already am part of NAMI (National Alliance for Mental Illness) and want to support those I care for however I am able.

4. My initial information may be in error and, as an Illinois resident, I may be OBLIGED to join a Valley within my state of residence.

Any thoughts on this from others?
 
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flameburns623

Registered User
AASR-SJ offers a series of courses.

Make sure you go to see the SJ degrees, even if you join NMJ.*

*Northern Masonic Jurisdiction, vice Northern Jurisdiction.

Edited to reflect the proper name of the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction. Thanks, Bro. Cook.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
At the blue lodge level there is a ton of visitation across the state line near St Louis. When I attended GL in Springfield regularly there are a lot of guys who did degree team on both sides.

To me it's a cable two issue. What does cable tow even mean? The traditional meaning is your nearest lodge but now more than 50 miles. The Illinois GL meaning is your nearest lodge within Illinois ignoring closer lodges across the border. So it's ambiguous by the rules.

But you appear to have a preference! Go ahead and ask what their cable tow rules are so that you can ask for a petition.

You will be fine whichever jurisdiction you select. They aren't that different. Since you are semi-close to both you'll be free to visit and see both sets of degrees. The early ones are very different. The later ones are very similar.
 

Illuminatio

Premium Member
Being in the same area as you, I joined the Valley of Southern Illinois. I was not personally aware it would be an option to join in MO (still not sure it is, can anyone confirm?). I can vouch for the brothers in the Valley of Southern Illinois personally though. It's a great group of men that does a lot of good charity work. To one of your points, probably the biggest reason for me not even looking into joining in StL was nearly anyone that I'm aware of being Scottish Rite in area Lodges I interact with, are members there. So when they have their reunions, I'm sure to see someone I know. In MO, it would be a whole different group of brothers. A couple members of my own Lodge are officers down there as well. Anyway, being able to come in on a large meeting like that and actually know a few people has made the experience much more enjoyable for me personally. That item probably held the most weight for me.

If you get bored and haven't already, check out their website and calendar of events, upcoming and past - http://sril092.com . I created a new website for them last year as their old one was literally barely usable with modern browsers. They are a bit more of drive for you, but their calendar is generally full up on opportunities to get involved.
 

MarkR

Premium Member
I've read about southern Indiana brethren crossing the Ohio River to join Scottish Rite in Louisville. Indiana is NMJ, Kentucky SJ. They said they had to get a waiver from the NMJ to do it, but that getting the waiver was not a terribly big deal. I attended the Guthrie Oklahoma spring reunion this year (should be on every Scottish Rite Mason's bucket list) and one of the guys who was going through the degrees there was from New York. He said he had to get a waiver, but got it without a big problem.
 

Kenneth NC Mason

Registered User
I've heard of the NMJ doing DVD Degrees is this accurate ? I'm going through Scottish Rite in the spring in SMJ , which apparently doesn't do those , but I still think it's a interesting concept


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry
 

Illuminatio

Premium Member
I've heard of the NMJ doing DVD Degrees is this accurate ? I'm going through Scottish Rite in the spring in SMJ , which apparently doesn't do those , but I still think it's a interesting concept


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry

At my Reunion a couple of the degrees were via DVD. Not because of preference but because of necessity. They only use them if they aren't able to have enough people to completely put on a degree live. Sometimes enough people's schedule just don't work out and it happens that way. I will say though, the DVDs are very well done. Full professional sets, makeup and costumes throughout, with excellent acting. I was worried they would be cheesy, but they weren't at all. They were surprisingly good and filled the gap quite nicely.

In the end (someone feel free to correct me but) I believe they have them available for all or almost all of the degrees for just such situations - only as a fallback and not as a frontline go-to.
 

SimonM

Registered User
In the end (someone feel free to correct me but) I believe they have them available for all or almost all of the degrees for just such situations - only as a fallback and not as a frontline go-to.
I have the opposite opinion. The way I see it a person is not initiated if he only watches a ritual beeing preformed.
He can certainly get beautifull and impressive experience from it, the same way you can get from watching a really good theatre play. However, he will not get a true spiritual initiatory experience from it.

By observing degrees - preformed on others live or on dvd - we will not recieve the full potential of it and in the long run diminish the degrees and lose what is the core of masonry.

I understand that brothers who have recieved their degrees this way might feel differently, I still believe it is the wrong way to go.
 

Illuminatio

Premium Member
I have the opposite opinion. The way I see it a person is not initiated if he only watches a ritual beeing preformed.
He can certainly get beautifull and impressive experience from it, the same way you can get from watching a really good theatre play. However, he will not get a true spiritual initiatory experience from it.

By observing degrees - preformed on others live or on dvd - we will not recieve the full potential of it and in the long run diminish the degrees and lose what is the core of masonry.

I understand that brothers who have recieved their degrees this way might feel differently, I still believe it is the wrong way to go.

That is the way all of the Scottish Rite degrees are done (except the last) at least in my experience. You don't participate, you see them performed. York Rite I understand to be different. Have not been through it myself though.
 

SimonM

Registered User
That is the way all of the Scottish Rite degrees are done (except the last) at least in my experience. You don't participate, you see them performed. York Rite I understand to be different. Have not been through it myself though.

Is that the way it is done in both Northern and Southern Jurisdiction?
 

Illuminatio

Premium Member
Is that the way it is done in both Northern and Southern Jurisdiction?

It's the only way I've known of them being done regardless of jurisdiction. I could be wrong but after being around a few years and that being all I've ever heard of from Brothers in both, I would be quite surprised to hear anything to the contrary.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Is that the way it is done in both Northern and Southern Jurisdiction?

In the US both SR jurisdictions transitioned to theater style over a century ago.

When going through my class I very much liked being the exemplar in one of the degrees. It made a bigger impression on me at the time, but as I attended reunion after reunion and saw the degrees again and again the difference faded. The more subtle content of the rest of the degrees soaked in by a slower method that ended up just as effective.
 

SimonM

Registered User
When going through my class I very much liked being the exemplar in one of the degrees. It made a bigger impression on me at the time, but as I attended reunion after reunion and saw the degrees again and again the difference faded. The more subtle content of the rest of the degrees soaked in by a slower method that ended up just as effective.

I'm glad to hear that this way worked just as well for you :)
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
In the US both SR jurisdictions transitioned to theater style over a century ago.

When going through my class I very much liked being the exemplar in one of the degrees. It made a bigger impression on me at the time, but as I attended reunion after reunion and saw the degrees again and again the difference faded. The more subtle content of the rest of the degrees soaked in by a slower method that ended up just as effective.
Same here!
 
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