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EA and FC at stated meetings

HKTidwell

Premium Member
We opened our Stated meeting last week in the EA, one of the Past Masters forgot and was reminded after he started and proceeded to give the Entered Master Craft. It was some kind of funny. It all worked out because I don't think the EA knew what had happened.
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
We had a rather frank discussion at one of my lodges that was really on one specific area, but it branched out. Many/most of the old timers didnt think EA/FC should be allowed in a lodge room. That a lodge is for MM business only and they shouldnt have any input and that it hampers discussion. Several pointed out that some stopped coming to lodge because of it. Personally I think thats just an excuse...

What MM business?? Anything that pertains to only MMs is conducted in a MM lodge to begin with. As we ask our EA/FC to help with the work and contribute their time and money to a lodge I feel that not only are they members but have a vested right in helping to decide what is going on.

I also refer my brothers who feel that EA/FC are not members to the "indispensable number" for each lodge and the qualifications for same.

...I have read in some old proceedings (there I go again I know) where a GM ruled that since EA/FC are not members of the lodge, do not support the lodge (ie pay dues) that after their 1 yr is up and they haven't advanced there isnt a need to carry them on the books because it causes unnecessary paperwork.

And their fees go where???

...Most hated the fact when I pointed out that prior to the Morgan Affair all lodges opened in the EA and in fact in Europe most still do today!

Too true

My personal complaint about it is that it may be having the opposite effect than was desired. Instead of keeping EA/FC active, they get a chance to look behind the current and many say WTF! thats it? Arguing about bills? and dont return or finish thier work.

I submit that this is the responsibility of the Master and brethren to make sure the meeting is more than just "paying bills" This is why the GL has programs that can be presented to the Lodge.

Or the lodge can have guest speakers. Not all have to be Masons, i.e. getting a local doctor to speak on Prostrate, (laugh all you want to. How many of you out there know the signs of BPH or what your PSA level is? Or even what that means?) or high blood pressure. When was the last time your lodge had a representative from the community come in and talk about the community demographics e.g. crime, hospital, where are your property taxes going, etc.?

Obviously I feel that EA/FC are not only members but should be encouraged at every step to develop their feelings towards their lodge and become strong contributers to, and for, the lodge's benefit.
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
The biggest complaint I have heard is that, they forget the sign and like the MM closing better then the other 2. I have never heard any deeper argument than that.

Sounds a bit lame. It is certain, that no matter what the majority wants, there is always going to be a character or two that just doesn't like it !
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
What MM business?? Anything that pertains to only MMs is conducted in a MM lodge to begin with. As we ask our EA/FC to help with the work and contribute their time and money to a lodge I feel that not only are they members but have a vested right in helping to decide what is going on.

I also refer my brothers who feel that EA/FC are not members to the "indispensable number" for each lodge and the qualifications for same.



And their fees go where???



Too true



I submit that this is the responsibility of the Master and brethren to make sure the meeting is more than just "paying bills" This is why the GL has programs that can be presented to the Lodge.

Or the lodge can have guest speakers. Not all have to be Masons, i.e. getting a local doctor to speak on Prostrate, (laugh all you want to. How many of you out there know the signs of BPH or what your PSA level is? Or even what that means?) or high blood pressure. When was the last time your lodge had a representative from the community come in and talk about the community demographics e.g. crime, hospital, where are your property taxes going, etc.?

Obviously I feel that EA/FC are not only members but should be encouraged at every step to develop their feelings towards their lodge and become strong contributers to, and for, the lodge's benefit.

Thank you my brother. I also feel that it is the responsibility of the Master to see that his meetings are conducted properly, and that the membership, will have an enjoyable time. Most lodges that I am aware of, who have programs, and guest speakers at stated meetings, seem to be doing well these days !
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
Thank you my brother. I also feel that it is the responsibility of the Master to see that his meetings are conducted properly, and that the membership, will have an enjoyable time. Most lodges that I am aware of, who have programs, and guest speakers at stated meetings, seem to be doing well these days !

Thank you. As one of my officers told me recently, "It is fun coming back to lodge again."

I know that not all of our efforts will be appreciated, especially by some of the old 'moss backs' but it is still the ultimate responsibility of the Master to preside over and control the meeting. If it is boring or not, therefore, is the ultimate responsibility of the Master and he will have to deal with the outcome. i.e. a growing lodge or a decaying lodge.

I refer to a quote I made in another post.

From "Other People's Money"...

(Larry The Liquidator) "I'll bet the last company making buggy whips made the best dam buggy whip in the world."

Are we concentrating on making buggy whips or on growing?
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
I rather think that we need to be making Master Masons, that is after all the one large ticket item, that we need for survival. Perhaps, it is time to modify the buggy whips a bit, and adapt them to something that can be used in our era.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
What MM business?? Anything that pertains to only MMs is conducted in a MM lodge to begin with. As we ask our EA/FC to help with the work and contribute their time and money to a lodge I feel that not only are they members but have a vested right in helping to decide what is going on.

EA and FC can not vote because they are not members of the lodge. You made my point actually, if the business has to be done in a MM lodge it will be opened as such and they wont be allowed in. So back to the complaints about the system that Ive heard is other than for profiecinecys they should all be on the MM.

And their fees go where???

The key word is FEES not DUES. They do not pay dues, only MMs do (with some exceptions of course).

Art. 344. (381). Status of E.As and F.Cs Entered
Apprentices and Fellowcrafts are Masons but they are not members of the Lodge and cannot vote or dimit, but shall be entitled to Masonic burial subject to the provisions of Art. 360. They are entitled to sit in the Lodge or Lodges in which they have received a degree or degrees, or to visit like Lodges upon examination or proper avouchment. (See Art. 60.) Entered Apprentices and Fellowcrafts may attend Masonic funerals and appear in public wearing aprons of their respective degrees, provided the Lodge has dispensation to appear in public, and they do not participate in any of the ceremonies. (Revised 1998)



I was and still am a big proponent of opening at the lowest degree possible but the question was what complaints have I heard about it. I was an EA when this got voted in and I was happy as could be at the time. Finally I wasnt just a food server/dish washer!
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
EA and FC can not vote because they are not members of the lodge. You made my point actually, if the business has to be done in a MM lodge it will be opened as such and they wont be allowed in. So back to the complaints about the system that Ive heard is other than for profiecinecys they should all be on the MM.



The key word is FEES not DUES. They do not pay dues, only MMs do (with some exceptions of course).

Art. 344. (381). Status of E.As and F.Cs Entered
Apprentices and Fellowcrafts are Masons but they are not members of the Lodge and cannot vote or dimit, but shall be entitled to Masonic burial subject to the provisions of Art. 360. They are entitled to sit in the Lodge or Lodges in which they have received a degree or degrees, or to visit like Lodges upon examination or proper avouchment. (See Art. 60.) Entered Apprentices and Fellowcrafts may attend Masonic funerals and appear in public wearing aprons of their respective degrees, provided the Lodge has dispensation to appear in public, and they do not participate in any of the ceremonies. (Revised 1998)



I was and still am a big proponent of opening at the lowest degree possible but the question was what complaints have I heard about it. I was an EA when this got voted in and I was happy as could be at the time. Finally I wasnt just a food server/dish washer!

Your last line says it all... EAs and FCs should not just be scullery help. They should also have an idea of how the lodge is run. I can understand that they don't have the right to vote on issues. I'm ok with that. But why exclude them from lodge life?
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
I was and still am a big proponent of opening at the lowest degree possible but the question was what complaints have I heard about it. I was an EA when this got voted in and I was happy as could be at the time. Finally I wasnt just a food server/dish washer![/QUOTE]



Well said Brother. I have to admit that I was not necessarily for against the recommendation brought up in 2007. I have been pleasantly surprised to see that for the most part, there doesn't seem to be any problem with doing this, at least in the Lodges I have witnessed it in. Only on one occasion did I see the wrong sign given ( when a brother exited the Lodge Room) I for one just don't understand why some brothers are so vehemently against this practice.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
... I for one just don't understand why some brothers are so vehemently against this practice.

"Thats not how we did it in my year!"

My usual reply is along the lines of doing the same thing all the time and expecting different results doesnt make a helluva lot of sense does it?
 

Chaplin the Elder

Registered User
I was and still am a big proponent of opening at the lowest degree possible but the question was what complaints have I heard about it. I was an EA when this got voted in and I was happy as could be at the time. Finally I wasnt just a food server/dish washer!



Well said Brother. I have to admit that I was not necessarily for against the recommendation brought up in 2007. I have been pleasantly surprised to see that for the most part, there doesn't seem to be any problem with doing this, at least in the Lodges I have witnessed it in. Only on one occasion did I see the wrong sign given ( when a brother exited the Lodge Room) I for one just don't understand why some brothers are so vehemently against this practice.

It seems to be working for my lodge. We were one of the first to open a stated on an EA, only because we meet two days after GL passed this. I was concerned that we would lose the FC and MM work due to not opening on those degrees but that has not been the case. Oh, we don't whiz through it like we used to at speeds of 90 miles an hour, but that is good too as it gives a chance for the newly passed and raised to actually hear what is being said.
 
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