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Under who's juridiction?

cemab4y

Premium Member
Here is a scenario. A man belongs to a lodge in Kentucky (KY does not yet recognize Prince Hall). He also belongs to a lodge in New York. (NY has full fraternal relations with Prince Hall Masonry.). He is stationed in Iraq. No USA Grand Lodge (except Prince Hall) is interested in chartering any lodge in Iraq.

As a New York Mason, he is entitled to visit any New York Lodge, and any lodge that is recognized by the Grand Lodge of New York.

If he goes to a social event in Iraq, (sponsored by a Prince Hall lodge), and is not asked to show a dues card, and never given an apron, and does not witness any degree work, nor anyone taking an oath, he is subject to Masonic discipline by the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

Taking out multiple lodge memberships, does not relieve the individual from following the regulations of ALL of his Grand Lodges.

I disagree with this policy. I think that taking our multiple memberships, should give the Mason, MORE privileges, not less. He should be able to put the membership with the non-recognizing Grand Lodge on "hold", and participate in the social and non-tyled events of the Prince Hall lodge, as a New York Mason.

And this is all the more reason, why all USA grand Lodges should immediately recognize, Prince Hall Masonry. Since no USA grand Lodge (except Prince Hall), is interested in chartering a lodge in Iraq or Afghanistan, military Masons should be able to participate in what Masonry there is, in the combat zone.

(BTW- I am a CIVILIAN, some people think that because I work in Afghanistan, I am a soldier. Trust me, I am way too old and too fat for military service. )
 

Dave in Waco

Premium Member
Here is a scenario. A man belongs to a lodge in Kentucky (KY does not yet recognize Prince Hall). He also belongs to a lodge in New York. (NY has full fraternal relations with Prince Hall Masonry.). He is stationed in Iraq. No USA Grand Lodge (except Prince Hall) is interested in chartering any lodge in Iraq.

As a New York Mason, he is entitled to visit any New York Lodge, and any lodge that is recognized by the Grand Lodge of New York.

If he goes to a social event in Iraq, (sponsored by a Prince Hall lodge), and is not asked to show a dues card, and never given an apron, and does not witness any degree work, nor anyone taking an oath, he is subject to Masonic discipline by the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

Taking out multiple lodge memberships, does not relieve the individual from following the regulations of ALL of his Grand Lodges.

I disagree with this policy. I think that taking our multiple memberships, should give the Mason, MORE privileges, not less. He should be able to put the membership with the non-recognizing Grand Lodge on "hold", and participate in the social and non-tyled events of the Prince Hall lodge, as a New York Mason.

And this is all the more reason, why all USA grand Lodges should immediately recognize, Prince Hall Masonry. Since no USA grand Lodge (except Prince Hall), is interested in chartering a lodge in Iraq or Afghanistan, military Masons should be able to participate in what Masonry there is, in the combat zone.

(BTW- I am a CIVILIAN, some people think that because I work in Afghanistan, I am a soldier. Trust me, I am way too old and too fat for military service. )

So KY won't even allow you to attend an open event put on by PHA? That is kind of rough. Texas would allow for open events, just not tiled events.
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
I believe that the answer is yes, you could even sit in a PH Lodge, IF the Grand Lodge of Ma in fact recognizes and has visitation rights with the MWPHGLof MA. The key is that you are under another Grand Jourisdiction who has Masonic relations with the GLOT. I am anxious to her what one of our members of the Jurisprudence Committee says about this.
 

RobinWinslett

Registered User
A previous poster brought up that, in Texas, the secretary of your lodge has a book of all lodges that you have fraternal relations with and can freely visit. What would be the point of putting this book together if you could just wait until you are in another jurisdiction and use this as an excuse to visit a lodge that is clandestine in Texas? If local rules trumped here, the book put out by the GLoT would only list the grand lodges. Also, if you visit a lodge that is clandestine in Texas, you are producing a Texas dues card which should make you clandestine there.
 

Gerald.Harris

Premium Member
Premium Member
Hello Brother Winslett, I believe the key to visitation, is that first of all, you have to establish whether the particular Grand Lodge is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas. Once that is established, then you are free to visit any lodge who is recognized, functioning,has visitation rights, and is in the jourisdiction of the Grand Lodge that is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas. I hope that no one has taken any of what has been posted here as law or rules. It is still every Masons' duty and obligation, to make sure that he is visiting a lodge that is not clandestine. The laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas are still the document and instrument that determines what a Texas Mason can do when he is in another Grand Jourisdiction.

A previous poster brought up that, in Texas, the secretary of your lodge has a book of all lodges that you have fraternal relations with and can freely visit. What would be the point of putting this book together if you could just wait until you are in another jurisdiction and use this as an excuse to visit a lodge that is clandestine in Texas? If local rules trumped here, the book put out by the GLoT would only list the grand lodges. Also, if you visit a lodge that is clandestine in Texas, you are producing a Texas dues card which should make you clandestine there.
 

RobinWinslett

Registered User
Thanks Bro. Harris. I think we're saying the same thing, just in a different manner (best work and best agree). I think the moral is to check, don't just assume.
 

mcrockett

Registered User
I just learned this the other day at the Secretary Forum. The lodge in which you took your degrees is your "parent" lodge. All other lodges joined after that would be "plural" lodges. I am sure that is the case in state or out of state. For example, a member of an OK lodge has to ask for a Cert. of Good Standing in order to join a TX lodge. That TX lodge has to be recognized by OK in their book of lodges masonic.

With that being the case, shouldn't it be up to your "parent" lodge's GL law for visitation?
 
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