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The Shrine has now been "de-recognized" in Arkansas

cemab4y

Premium Member
Good question. I do not know the answer. You should check out the Facebook page of the Imperial Potentate. His name is Severe. You can ask him directly.
 

Traveling Man

Premium Member
I understand there is another shakeup involving the Shrine and the Grand Lodge of Arizona, something about most of the Grand Lodge line becoming shuffled, along with involvement in conference of Grand Masters of Masons in North America. Times are certainly achangin'. If these things do not change, I see nothing but dissolution ahead; sad. Damn egos!

See the late link newsfeed masonic info trouble in arizona...
 
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Traveling Man

Premium Member
Please send the link, describing the issues in Arizona.

Sorry no link... http://www.masonsoftexas.com/forumdisplay.php?240-Masonic-News-Feeds

Apparently all of this occurred over two emails which had nothing to do with the DGM’s duties to the craft but with the Shrine’s Grand Potentate’s annual party invitation to the Grand Lodge. The day of the party, which I believe is on January 28th, was also a day heavily scheduled with Grand Lodge meetings. In replying to the emailed invitation the DGM indicated that although some of the Grand Lodge officers would be attending others could not. This reply went out to the entire Grand Line and the Grand Master was upset presumably thinking the Grand potentate would feel insulted by the DGM’s reply. He then cancelled one of the meetings which prompted the DGM to amend his email to the Grand Potentate.

He has been removed from all of his duties. He was asked to turn in this apron, collar, etc. but refused to. He will not resign and will run for election to G.M. in June. It seems that the reason is as stated and was resolved but the G.M. still took the action above.
 
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sands67

Premium Member
I have just read a letter from the Imperial Potentate regarding the Arizona situation. If the facts are indeed as he understands them I have some misgivings about how these things went down. The complaint was brought by a person who was not party to the event, the complaint was initially rejected by the lodge investigating committee, the complaint was brought to the grand lodge despite the investigating committee's recommendation, threat of expulsion of any Arkansas Freemason who even wears a Shriners pin and even in light of the news that Mr Buffington took a demit from the Shriners to satisfy the Grand Lodge they refuse to rescind the decree barring AR Masons from being Shriners.
Can someone tell me what else the Shrine could do?
 

Txmason32

Registered User
There is a song that goes "Pride is the chief cause in the decline in the number of husbands and wives " (yes its a country song in case you were wondering ) lol Wish what was best for the fraternity (that word means The lodge and shrine for we should be one fraternity ) would be first in foremost in peoples hearts ,not our own agenda !!
 

Ashton Lawson

Premium Member
Imperial Potentate Mike Severe issued a Special Order to the Shrine Temples in Arkansas.

You can read it here at Bro. Hodapp's Blog.

It appears clear to me from this Special Order that Imperial Potentate Mike Severe has decided to willfully & publicly ignore an official Grand Master's Decision by the Grand Master's of both Arkansas & Michigan, thus placing the entirety of Shrine International at risk of losing recognition as a Masonic entity. It seems clear to me that Imperial Potentate Severe believes the Shrine is its own entity and that it is subservient to nobody, including any Grand Lodge. He clearly does not see the Shrine as an "appendant" body of Masonry. As such, I am of the personal opinion that the Shrine seems no longer interested in maintaining its Masonic affiliation. Ultimately, the Shrine is an appendant body of the Grand Lodge of each state, and as such; is obligated to comply with the decisions of the Grand Lodge of each state (whether it agrees with them or not). The Shrine has now lost recognition in Arkansas and Michigan, and if this trend continues; I believe it will eventually lose recognition in all 50 states.
 

sands67

Premium Member
I look beyond the organization, but to the work that they do. The people making the decisions on each side are Masons. If there is a split I do not see either side winning and both will be hurt in the end. Membership in Freemasonry and the Shrine will decline as the total membership will be split if Shriners International is declared clandestine. Some will choose Shriners over Freemasonry and vice versa. What bothers me the most is that I enjoy helping children with serious issues and I have seen the work Shriners International does and it is truly amazing. I see this not boding well and I do not like where it is going. I think Grand Lodges need a mechanism where an appeal can be heard above the Grand Lodge level in an attempt to take the politics our of the equation. It would be this single body that Shriners International would be appendant to and not to 65 Grand Lodges across the country. This may be the solution.
 

Ashton Lawson

Premium Member
Or, perhaps, the Shrine could acknowledge that Masonic recognition comes with Masonic regulation. None of the other appendant bodies seem to have trouble understanding such a simple arrangement...
 

sands67

Premium Member
The Shrine did acknowledge in it prior to this order and in the case of the Grand Lodge of Arkansas the person in question even demitted from the Shrine prior to the review of his case by the Shriners in June in an effort to satisfy the Grand Lodge to no avail. Not so simple to satisfy some Grand Lodges. As I said earlier, what else could Shrine do? The member was no longer a member of the Shrine yet the Grand Lodge would not rescind its edict.
 

Txmason32

Registered User
Its funny to me that The Illustrious Ronals Seale ,33* Sovereign Grand Commander Supereme Council.33*AASR of Freemasonry SJ of the United States dosent seem to end up in these situations ? In all his speeches and interviews is seems to promote masonry and its members and making men better . Not seperation or why arent we having fun or lets dump our foundation to cause i think men who . BTW If i am correct i think the AASR does things for children and hospitals ect ??? :) but who knows i could be wrong since everyone acts like the rest of masonry does nothing lol . I am in hopes this can all be worked out but its sad to see brothers doing the who has the biggest *@%#& act instead of remembering our obligations and that we are here for good not for power and awards . The highest award you will ever get was that white apron
 

sands67

Premium Member
@txmason ... I agree. We are stronger together than we ever could be apart. I have been after our lodge to do more in our local coommunity and be more visible, but some prefer a more low key approach. For that reason sometimes it seems the Lodge does not get the credit it deserves. Shriners do amazing work, but at the end of the day all Shriners are Masons. I am of the hope that this will remain and that we will get younger principled people in the Lodge to carry on with both great organizations. A p#$$%#* contest doesn't bode well for either.
 

fairbanks1363pm

Registered User
I have never heard the Imperial Potentate Mike Severe or his line up do any thing or speak in any way but to promote our fraternity in a positive way. I have had the chance to hear him in an interview and he is a class act and a Brother Mason. He had the honor recently of raising his son to the sublime degree which he was very proud of. This whole things is wrong to me. The actions of a few have spoiled things for many good people. It seems to to be all over politics. Politics has no room in Masonry but seem to exist in every Masonic body and in many of good lodges. I pray that the Grand Lodge of Arkansas can mend their problems. It seems that they have had a hard time. I am as Masonic as I can be and this upsets my Masonic stomach. I am also proud as can be to be a Shriner. The Shrine had a budget last year of 856 million dollars for its 22 hospital system. I have read that Masonic bodies give 4 million in charity a year. This is a huge portion of it and I am proud to be a part of it all. My unit gave $17,000 last year raised from a clay shoot to the burn center for skin graphs. The hurricane wiped the hospitals skin bank out and they needed skin for the kids. What a blessing to be a part of and I couldnt have been a part of it with out all the worthy brothers who have gone before me. Before we take shots at other bodies we all need to realize that we have other brother masons that are vested in not only their lodges but th Shrine, YR, SR and many other groups. I pray that the Lord will continue to bless blue lodges with good men with strong leadership skills to overcome all of the confusion in and about our fraternity. With this said I have read and heard all of this I want to read. On to the general discussion thread.
Its funny to me that The Illustrious Ronals Seale ,33* Sovereign Grand Commander Supereme Council.33*AASR of Freemasonry SJ of the United States dosent seem to end up in these situations ? In all his speeches and interviews is seems to promote masonry and its members and making men better . Not seperation or why arent we having fun or lets dump our foundation to cause i think men who . BTW If i am correct i think the AASR does things for children and hospitals ect ??? :) but who knows i could be wrong since everyone acts like the rest of masonry does nothing lol . I am in hopes this can all be worked out but its sad to see brothers doing the who has the biggest *@%#& act instead of remembering our obligations and that we are here for good not for power and awards . The highest award you will ever get was that white apron
 

masonicknight

Registered User
Just an observation from a California Mason of 25 years.

When I came into the fraternity, it was required that a member wait a year after they received their 3rd degree so that they could learn more about what they had joined and to be better involved with their new brothers. An observation period. About three years later that requirement was taken out of the CMC and so one could now join any of the concordant bodies immediately. This was done as they were worried about loss of membership to the other groups.

A few years later, the Shrine took out the requirement of being a member of the Scottish or York Rites as a prerequisite to membership. The effect to those two entities is that there was a loss of membership, thankfully not as bad as it could have been but definitely noticeable. I have heard from the local valley of SR that some of the Shrine people, who had never come to an SR meeting after joining it to become a Shriner, are now looking into getting involve in something they bypassed. The Shrine at that time was worried about decreasing membership and felt that they needed to make this move and not worry about what it meant to the other groups. Some are coming back because of the increase in Shrine dues and their fixed incomes are preventing them from travel and participation at that level.

I have met those that would become a Shriner but would not join if they that had to join another group, a loss for all involved. Within one of the local lodges was the man who, after receiving his 3rd degree and SR degrees and becoming a Shriner, did not realize that he had to keep all the memberships in order to actively participate in the only group that he wanted to belong to, the Shrine.

A good friend and lodge brother of mine has had the fortune of having two sons who have become members. After the making of the first a MM, I found that the dad had the son signed up for the Shrine initiation that was happening the following week. My understanding is that the second son is to have the same treatment after his 3rd. Both young men are or were at the minimum age and were or are in high school (senior year). I have no problem that they wanted to follow in dad's footsteps, I have a problem that they will really never know what they have joined or the growth the local lodge could have used if they had stayed out of other bodies until they had had a chance to grow first. Ironically the father is involved with the Blue Lodge but like many is tired of being a retread officer, but cannot see how moving the younger members to Shrine and not having Lodge participation for them is not a concern for local growth. New members who are willing to be active in Lodge and present new ideas are needed, farming them out to other groups is not a way to solve a perceived public persona in the community of doing nothing. New blood and new ideas tend to go together if they are allowed to grow them.

Many Shrine friends have actually made light of their Lodge membership to me and to others publically. Statements of dissatisfaction are not uncommon as it is felt that there is too much petty in fighting going on so why bother with it. Or you get the boisterous laugh and the opinion of what fools there are in the Blue Lodge. So, why did they join in the first place? Shrine and it alone. Most of the local Lodge members don't attend a Lodge meeting but will attend a local Shrine event or dinner. If the Lodge needs help, it is not there. If the local Shrine Club needs help you see people you would not expect were Masons show up.

The Shrine, when they dropped the requirement to be in the SR and the YR, had made an intriguing thought and option available. It was to allow non-Masons to join the Shrine initially with the understanding that after a short period of time they would need to join the Blue Lodge in order to continue their existence as a member. During this time the new member could be observed as to if they really wanted to be there and involved. Maybe after a period of time this may have worked to all involved.

Right now we seem to have ego's and semantics at play and all those who are members are being drawn into a Noh Play of drama and tragedy. Maybe it is time for a cooling off period and reflection of what it means to be Masonic both as a person and as an institution.

These are just observations and nothing more of things said and seen. Maybe, just maybe, we will be able to get past the silliness and get back to the business of truly Fraternity.
 
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sands67

Premium Member
Some great points Masonic Knight. I am starting to think that there should be a period of time after becoming a Mason before that person can join other Masonic bodies. Work in your lodge first! This may allow for a better appreciation of what the lodge offers before joining the Shrine or other bodies. This would also serve to make sure they are Masons for the right reasons. There are plenty of charities that help children. If someone wants to help kids go to one of them. The Shriners have a pre requisite in that you have to be a Mason first. To me that means being active in your lodge.
 

Benton

Premium Member
Some great points Masonic Knight. I am starting to think that there should be a period of time after becoming a Mason before that person can join other Masonic bodies. Work in your lodge first! This may allow for a better appreciation of what the lodge offers before joining the Shrine or other bodies. This would also serve to make sure they are Masons for the right reasons. There are plenty of charities that help children. If someone wants to help kids go to one of them. The Shriners have a pre requisite in that you have to be a Mason first. To me that means being active in your lodge.

While I like the idea, I don't see it ever being implemented. For one, I don't think the appendant bodies would go for it. Secondly, it wouldn't happen uniformly across all jurisdictions, which would cause problems, I think.
 

Traveling Man

Premium Member
Some great points Masonic Knight. I am starting to think that there should be a period of time after becoming a Mason before that person can join other Masonic bodies. Work in your lodge first! This may allow for a better appreciation of what the lodge offers before joining the Shrine or other bodies. This would also serve to make sure they are Masons for the right reasons. There are plenty of charities that help children. If someone wants to help kids go to one of them. The Shriners have a pre requisite in that you have to be a Mason first. To me that means being active in your lodge.

And if your suggestion becomes reality, I'll bet The Shriners' pre requisite that you be a Mason will become waived, bets anyone? The reality is that even 20 years ago the "dependent bodies" were waiting im-paitently at ones raising and now the drive for membership is hurting worse. The sad fact seems to be that all of these organizations are so awe struck with their own power they are bent on destroying anything in their path, even themselves in the process. Sad! The sad part about these kind of events is that no one wins, and everyone loses something, integrity being one of them.
 
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