widows son
Premium Member
But why do you need a gun to go shopping?
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Prayers sent to those affected in Connecticut.
- Thread starter widows son
- Start date
widows son
Premium Member
Is life in America that dangerous?
Brent Heilman
Premium Member
Like I said earlier, mine is hidden safely away and I have no worries about my son finding it. At ten he will have had 6 years of gun safety under his belt and he will be responsible with them. I owned my first gun at 9 and I have never had an accident with it. I have a concealed carry permit and I carry everywhere I am allowed to. It is not that is extremely dangerous where I live, but it is my right and I choose to exercise that right. I would hate to be the person that could have stopped something if I had the ability but not the means. I can think of two instances in my town where someone with a CCL stopped a crime from happening. If they had not had their guns with them there is not telling what would have happened. Both times were people that were out just doing their own thing, never expecting to use it, but did. One was a woman who was attacked by a knife-wielding man that was not only trying to rape her, but was about to cut her throat. The guy that stopped it was a CCL holder that was spending a relaxing time fishing when he heard her cries for help. Being out at one of the lakes the chances of her yelling doing any good were remote, but in this case someone did hear them. The man that stopped went to the tent where the crime was happening and drew his weapon. The attacker heard the man approaching turned and saw the gun. He complied to the man orders and was promptly taken into custody. The other instance a man was running from the cops went into a local ice cream shop and took a hostage. Behind him sat a man with his CCL who discharged one round stopping the attack.
The fact is that guns are used about 2.5 million times per year that either result in a crime being prevented or in some cases stop a crime in progress. Many of these prevent the loss of innocent life. These are the things you will never hear on the news because guns are evil according to the media. There are criminals out there who have no regard for the law or life. Banning all guns across this country will result in one thing. Only criminals will have them and leave the average American no way to defend themselves.
The fact is that guns are used about 2.5 million times per year that either result in a crime being prevented or in some cases stop a crime in progress. Many of these prevent the loss of innocent life. These are the things you will never hear on the news because guns are evil according to the media. There are criminals out there who have no regard for the law or life. Banning all guns across this country will result in one thing. Only criminals will have them and leave the average American no way to defend themselves.
crono782
Premium Member
Sometimes yes. I've had my residence broken into before as well as vandalism and trespassing. I also used to live out in the sticks where it was pretty common to come across a copperhead nest, water moc' hole, and the rare rabid skunk that all had to be put down. Not to mention keeping guns for hog and deer hunting which is popular in Texas. Also, at least down here, carrying guns is ingrained into the societal mindset. This part of the country was founded out of the wild west and the right to protect yourself and your property is a deeply regarded. They always say, if you're in Texas and you choose to break into somebody's home, you'd best be prepared for the possibility of meeting the business end of a gun.
Hero stories do not sell cable subscriptions or attract viewers, only the grim stories of bad deeds. Sad state of society indeed.
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It's not that someone gets attacked every day, but I would hate to be in a situation that I need to protect myself or my family and not be able to!
Our CC law is in place due to a victim of a mass shooting knowing that if she had her handgun as opposed to following the law at the time, she would most likely have been able to stop the event. The vast majority who hold a carry card never use their firearm, but the thought of not being able to protect my family should the need arise is terrifying.
Our CC law is in place due to a victim of a mass shooting knowing that if she had her handgun as opposed to following the law at the time, she would most likely have been able to stop the event. The vast majority who hold a carry card never use their firearm, but the thought of not being able to protect my family should the need arise is terrifying.
ThanatosTA
Premium Member
I carry in the mall and grocery store not only because there is always a possibility that someone can do something bad, but also because there is no safer place for my gun when I’m not at home than on my person. When my handgun isn’t on me, it’s in a gun locker. When I’m out, it stays on me. Do a search on how to pick locks. You might be amazed what you can find out there. I even found a site that will teach you how to pick a lock with two paperclips. I agree that we as firearm owners need to be as responsible as possible when it comes to safety, but I still don’t think that the laws need to be stricter for law abiding citizens. I can’t help to think that laws aren’t going to make things better.
JJones
Moderator
I see arguments against guns everywhere I look since the incident.
The fact is the same day the shooting occurred a man stabbed 20 kids in China with a knife. That tells me that getting rid of guns won't make the problem go away. Part of me thinks things like this happen as a direct result of the way people have been raised in the past 30+ years. Another, more radical part of me thinks that if a school employee was allowed to exercise his or her right to carry a gun then there might have been less casualties.
Children are getting killed in what used to be one of the safest environments they could find outside their own home (in some cases moreso than their own home). You tell me.
The fact is the same day the shooting occurred a man stabbed 20 kids in China with a knife. That tells me that getting rid of guns won't make the problem go away. Part of me thinks things like this happen as a direct result of the way people have been raised in the past 30+ years. Another, more radical part of me thinks that if a school employee was allowed to exercise his or her right to carry a gun then there might have been less casualties.
Children are getting killed in what used to be one of the safest environments they could find outside their own home (in some cases moreso than their own home). You tell me.
CajunTinMan
Registered User
Great article:
Dennis Byrne
December 18, 2012
I am an old man and the older I get the less I understand.
I can't understand how anyone can look into the face of a 6-year-old and fire round after round into that child, as the deranged gunman did Friday in Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Wisdom is supposed to come with age; now, after 70 years, the realization that it's not necessarily so is itself ironic wisdom.
Perhaps a blessing of my old age is remembering a childhood devoid of school lockdowns and mass killings. That's unlike today, characterized by a horrifying increase in the number of madmen opening fire not just in schools, but in movie theaters, malls and any place that people gather. Why, in our advanced and enlightened age, is the slaughter worsening?
I don't understand.
I was a child of the 1940s and '50s when school doors were unlocked, no one imagined lockdown drills and the only violence to be feared was a nun on the warpath searching for who tossed the spitball. If there were many mass killings then, I couldn't find them. So, why no mass murders then; why so many now?
Maybe fewer people then were conscious of or controlled by their demons, as most were too busy struggling for food and shelter during the Great Depression and their nation's very survival during World War II.
We hear passionate cries since Friday's massacre for more gun control. Fair enough. Maybe we need more. But the number of gun control laws back then were meager compared with today's. Those who had access to guns weren't using them to kill innocents. Gang punks had to improvise their own weapons (called zip guns) to rumble. Even so, innocent children weren't shot on their front porches or killed by stray bullets while sleeping.
I don't understand.
Experts tell us that our mental health system has failed us by not spotting and disarming mass killers before they strike. Perhaps so; mental illness, even now, remains too little understood. Yet, were not people in the '40s and '50s equally afflicted with mental illness? Has there been a sudden increase? Certainly, we had fewer mental health professionals and services back then. Yet, now, with professionals and services galore we have an explosion of mass killings.
I don't understand.
The solution, we're told, is more school security. The fact that we needed virtually no school security in the '40s and '50s speaks to the fact that more locked doors, more cameras and so forth, while not a bad idea, address the symptom rather than the cause of today's killing outbreak.
Experts also tell us that despite the mounting number of such attacks, schools remain the safest place for kids. They say the Sandy Hook attack was an "isolated incident" and the act of a sole sociopath. Indeed. Yet where were such maniacs in the 1940s and '50s? In hiding? Or do we have more of them now? If so, why?
I don't understand.
Is the problem the "culture of violence," the bloody images and savagery that are so mainstream today in the media, video games and even on the streets? Yes, that's a difference from my childhood. We grew up in an "innocent age," which today's sophisticates mock as something amusing, if not harmful.
Yet, we don't need a study when common sense tells us that innocence is not a predictor of violence. Common sense says a society immersed as we are in violence tends to perpetuate violence and can hardly be expected to cure itself with Band-Aids. Some will scoff, erroneously accusing me of asserting a direct link between the Sandy Hook killer and violent video games.
Can it be something deeper than that? The fact is indisputable: We have been afflicted with increased mass killings; once we were blessed with decades in which we weren't. We have instituted many "desperately needed" programs and services, yet more blood is spilled.
What is happening today that didn't happen a half-century ago? If it's not a major cultural debasement, then what is it? Is it even possible to contemplate that something deeply ingrained in today's culture is to be blamed without being called a name?
I don't understand.
Dennis Byrne, a Chicago writer, blogs in The Barbershop on chicagonow.com.
Chicago Tribune Company, LLC
Dennis Byrne
December 18, 2012
I am an old man and the older I get the less I understand.
I can't understand how anyone can look into the face of a 6-year-old and fire round after round into that child, as the deranged gunman did Friday in Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Wisdom is supposed to come with age; now, after 70 years, the realization that it's not necessarily so is itself ironic wisdom.
Perhaps a blessing of my old age is remembering a childhood devoid of school lockdowns and mass killings. That's unlike today, characterized by a horrifying increase in the number of madmen opening fire not just in schools, but in movie theaters, malls and any place that people gather. Why, in our advanced and enlightened age, is the slaughter worsening?
I don't understand.
I was a child of the 1940s and '50s when school doors were unlocked, no one imagined lockdown drills and the only violence to be feared was a nun on the warpath searching for who tossed the spitball. If there were many mass killings then, I couldn't find them. So, why no mass murders then; why so many now?
Maybe fewer people then were conscious of or controlled by their demons, as most were too busy struggling for food and shelter during the Great Depression and their nation's very survival during World War II.
We hear passionate cries since Friday's massacre for more gun control. Fair enough. Maybe we need more. But the number of gun control laws back then were meager compared with today's. Those who had access to guns weren't using them to kill innocents. Gang punks had to improvise their own weapons (called zip guns) to rumble. Even so, innocent children weren't shot on their front porches or killed by stray bullets while sleeping.
I don't understand.
Experts tell us that our mental health system has failed us by not spotting and disarming mass killers before they strike. Perhaps so; mental illness, even now, remains too little understood. Yet, were not people in the '40s and '50s equally afflicted with mental illness? Has there been a sudden increase? Certainly, we had fewer mental health professionals and services back then. Yet, now, with professionals and services galore we have an explosion of mass killings.
I don't understand.
The solution, we're told, is more school security. The fact that we needed virtually no school security in the '40s and '50s speaks to the fact that more locked doors, more cameras and so forth, while not a bad idea, address the symptom rather than the cause of today's killing outbreak.
Experts also tell us that despite the mounting number of such attacks, schools remain the safest place for kids. They say the Sandy Hook attack was an "isolated incident" and the act of a sole sociopath. Indeed. Yet where were such maniacs in the 1940s and '50s? In hiding? Or do we have more of them now? If so, why?
I don't understand.
Is the problem the "culture of violence," the bloody images and savagery that are so mainstream today in the media, video games and even on the streets? Yes, that's a difference from my childhood. We grew up in an "innocent age," which today's sophisticates mock as something amusing, if not harmful.
Yet, we don't need a study when common sense tells us that innocence is not a predictor of violence. Common sense says a society immersed as we are in violence tends to perpetuate violence and can hardly be expected to cure itself with Band-Aids. Some will scoff, erroneously accusing me of asserting a direct link between the Sandy Hook killer and violent video games.
Can it be something deeper than that? The fact is indisputable: We have been afflicted with increased mass killings; once we were blessed with decades in which we weren't. We have instituted many "desperately needed" programs and services, yet more blood is spilled.
What is happening today that didn't happen a half-century ago? If it's not a major cultural debasement, then what is it? Is it even possible to contemplate that something deeply ingrained in today's culture is to be blamed without being called a name?
I don't understand.
Dennis Byrne, a Chicago writer, blogs in The Barbershop on chicagonow.com.
Chicago Tribune Company, LLC
CajunTinMan
Registered User
And to answer your question WS. Yes America is getting that dangerous.
widows son
Premium Member
My brothers, I have pondered on this topic for a day. You are right. While having a bit stricter gun laws might hinder one from doing something like what happened, if a person is motivated they will still do it. But much like the
Posted article, here are my thoughts: this type of thing was rare to see in the 50s and 60s. people weren't afraid of gang violence, mass shootings or criminal activity. The mafia and bikers seemed to be the hot issues of the time relating to crime, and look at these groups. The mafia, cold blooded killers, only killed their own, or rivals. Never did they attack innocent people, or children. And only until the 80s, drugs weren't something to make money on in the eyes of the mafia, and thats when things started to turn ugly. Bikers were much the same, until the late 70s and early 80s. Our society has changed to a violent, disrespectful, drugged up society. The violence is obvious. Much you brethren are older than I, probably by at least 20 years, but how many of you remember watching GI Joe? Bugs Bunny?Batman and Robin? Hercules? Justice league? All these shows glorify violence. And as time went on the shows got more detailed and more violent. I grew up watching the 90s versions of these cartoons and they were just as violent than their 60s counterpart. Also in the 60s version of these shows there was a moral to be learned at the end of the episode. This isn't the case. Now when I am with some of my family who are 10-16 approx, the shows they watch A: don't make any sense, B: glorify violence, and C: have no moral to the story. Now the next issue is video games. I remember the first game that I played was Super Mario Bros. for NES. Not an overly violent game, other than shooting fireballs at strafing mushrooms, the Duck Hunter, which came with a gun, but I don't see it as violent because hunting is a way of life. But as the years went on we slowly see more violent games emerge, especially in the 90s when other counsels came out and competition set in. Now the games of today are the most violent. First person shooter puts you in the shoes of the games protagonist, killing anything you come across, with gory detail. These games are rated for teens 17 and up, but how many kids play them? How many of your kids play them? All this can do is desensitize the person exposed. Movies are no different either. Remember Hallloween? Kind of violent but scary because of the plot, not because people were getting stabbed. Now a days horror is scary on how much guts and blood are shown. Now Cajun you posted an article on Facebook with a victim from columbine saying a speech about the tragedy he went through. I thought that it is true down to the letter. The young generation has no respect for their elders who have worked themselves to the marrow of their bones to pave the road of a good life, but sadly they are being pushed aside and forgotten about, being crammed into homes without a pension or security. Our society is also Godless. I'm sure by now all of you know that I'm not a man of instituted religion, but I deeply respect those who have faith and are able to see the beauty of the creator, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian, Baha'i, Hindu, Buddhist etc. And I thank all of you who have provided me incite into their beliefs, but the majority of our population doesn't care about God. I feel this aspect needs to be instilled back into our culture. How great it would of been to live in 1700s America, when the true ideals were being practiced. We need to instill that we are a brotherhood of mankind under the fatherhood of God, mason and non mason. I grew up as one of "the lost generation". My childhood I loved comic books and video games, and didn't care for church or God, even though God and christ were pounded into my head. My teens I fell into the wrong crowd. Getting into drugs, selling them, doing them, etc. I will tell you all this that there is nothing more violent and degrading than being in the drug game. I've had a gun pointed at me, so not much scares me these days and that image is burned into my brain forever. Unfortunately that incident changed my life. Soon after I severed all ties I had with those people, ( if you want to call them people ) and began the road to a new and better life, one which has been the most fulfilling so far and has led me to meet all of you beautiful people. So guns aren't the problem. I enjoy guns, and bows and all types of hunting gear. I don't agree with assault weapons purely for the reason that it just seems like a bit much for a hunter, but they are fun at a range. But the NRA, and all the gun laws won't stop this from happening. Storage laws might slow down someone from doing a horrible act like that in CT, but will never stop it. Change in out society in every facet can only bring the proper steps to a better and safer future for our children.
Posted article, here are my thoughts: this type of thing was rare to see in the 50s and 60s. people weren't afraid of gang violence, mass shootings or criminal activity. The mafia and bikers seemed to be the hot issues of the time relating to crime, and look at these groups. The mafia, cold blooded killers, only killed their own, or rivals. Never did they attack innocent people, or children. And only until the 80s, drugs weren't something to make money on in the eyes of the mafia, and thats when things started to turn ugly. Bikers were much the same, until the late 70s and early 80s. Our society has changed to a violent, disrespectful, drugged up society. The violence is obvious. Much you brethren are older than I, probably by at least 20 years, but how many of you remember watching GI Joe? Bugs Bunny?Batman and Robin? Hercules? Justice league? All these shows glorify violence. And as time went on the shows got more detailed and more violent. I grew up watching the 90s versions of these cartoons and they were just as violent than their 60s counterpart. Also in the 60s version of these shows there was a moral to be learned at the end of the episode. This isn't the case. Now when I am with some of my family who are 10-16 approx, the shows they watch A: don't make any sense, B: glorify violence, and C: have no moral to the story. Now the next issue is video games. I remember the first game that I played was Super Mario Bros. for NES. Not an overly violent game, other than shooting fireballs at strafing mushrooms, the Duck Hunter, which came with a gun, but I don't see it as violent because hunting is a way of life. But as the years went on we slowly see more violent games emerge, especially in the 90s when other counsels came out and competition set in. Now the games of today are the most violent. First person shooter puts you in the shoes of the games protagonist, killing anything you come across, with gory detail. These games are rated for teens 17 and up, but how many kids play them? How many of your kids play them? All this can do is desensitize the person exposed. Movies are no different either. Remember Hallloween? Kind of violent but scary because of the plot, not because people were getting stabbed. Now a days horror is scary on how much guts and blood are shown. Now Cajun you posted an article on Facebook with a victim from columbine saying a speech about the tragedy he went through. I thought that it is true down to the letter. The young generation has no respect for their elders who have worked themselves to the marrow of their bones to pave the road of a good life, but sadly they are being pushed aside and forgotten about, being crammed into homes without a pension or security. Our society is also Godless. I'm sure by now all of you know that I'm not a man of instituted religion, but I deeply respect those who have faith and are able to see the beauty of the creator, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Rastafarian, Baha'i, Hindu, Buddhist etc. And I thank all of you who have provided me incite into their beliefs, but the majority of our population doesn't care about God. I feel this aspect needs to be instilled back into our culture. How great it would of been to live in 1700s America, when the true ideals were being practiced. We need to instill that we are a brotherhood of mankind under the fatherhood of God, mason and non mason. I grew up as one of "the lost generation". My childhood I loved comic books and video games, and didn't care for church or God, even though God and christ were pounded into my head. My teens I fell into the wrong crowd. Getting into drugs, selling them, doing them, etc. I will tell you all this that there is nothing more violent and degrading than being in the drug game. I've had a gun pointed at me, so not much scares me these days and that image is burned into my brain forever. Unfortunately that incident changed my life. Soon after I severed all ties I had with those people, ( if you want to call them people ) and began the road to a new and better life, one which has been the most fulfilling so far and has led me to meet all of you beautiful people. So guns aren't the problem. I enjoy guns, and bows and all types of hunting gear. I don't agree with assault weapons purely for the reason that it just seems like a bit much for a hunter, but they are fun at a range. But the NRA, and all the gun laws won't stop this from happening. Storage laws might slow down someone from doing a horrible act like that in CT, but will never stop it. Change in out society in every facet can only bring the proper steps to a better and safer future for our children.
JJones
Moderator
Yep. Unfortunately when bad things happen people expect the government to take action to make them feel safe and it turns out the most peaceful thing the government can do is create more laws which can lead to more problems.
It's a problem with society and, until we as a society determine what makes people grow up so drastically different than they did a few decades ago then this type of problem wont go away. If you keep outlawing everything people kill each other with then we'll have a bigger list of things we can't have than things we can.
It's a problem with society and, until we as a society determine what makes people grow up so drastically different than they did a few decades ago then this type of problem wont go away. If you keep outlawing everything people kill each other with then we'll have a bigger list of things we can't have than things we can.
widows son
Premium Member
Correct. And the current American govt isn't going to see the cause of the problem, it'll attempt to patch over the "symptom"
crono782
Premium Member
THurse
Premium Member
I agree, because these television shows today that are meant for children, to watch does show a lot more profanity than my younger days. My grandchildren, are becoming violent to one another, where as though I have to intervene and remind them that it is only a television show. I rather they spend time at the park at their free time which has everything they love. The video games they play I can not believe my eyes. I sit back and think these games are made for kids weapons running people over with cars. Please don't get me wrong Brothers, but you do make the best out of life.
CajunTinMan
Registered User
Well I did some research on the internet about violence caused by TV and video games. Man you would not believe the amount of people denying there is any coloration. Which is crazy because commonsense will tell you there is. Remember when that show Jack Ass was out and all the reportes of kids getting injured trying to act like them. Or all the kids getting injured trying to do MMA and wrestling moves. Then the media hypes everything to the point where to a disturbed mind they see this is a way to go out with glory, a way to be remembered and talked about for years to come.
widows son
Premium Member
So true Cajun a
THurse
Premium Member
One of my grandchildren is a big fan of wrestling, now when I was a young child, I was a big fan as well , but just recently he was sent home from school for hurting one if his friends, by outing him in some kind of grip lock, anything can make an impression on a kid. Everything is resolved over this situation. He is a great kid, but television these days, is very impressionable for the kids today.
widows son
Premium Member
It's true. Parents need to be involved in their kids lives, and teach them about the world. TV isn't bad but children watch a lot of TV these days. I got my first job when I was 12.