My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Petition for Joint Recognition and Visitation

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
Brethren,

History has shown that we have been successful in our simple quest to make good men better. Through lists such as those including Nat 'King' Cole and President Harry S. Truman we can see many of the names that have graced our halls and our successes through their works. We have enjoyed a rich history since our official birth in 1717 and we have survived numerous conflicts both internally and externally.

The years of infancy were filled with turmoil, to the point that there was a brief split in the ranks.

Points of Difference between 'Antients' and 'Moderns'

“We shall fail to understand the controversy and its bearing upon present-day freemasonry unless we examine, however briefly, the differences that distinguished the two bodies. The transposition of the modes of recognition in the First and Second Degrees was an outstanding difference to which reference has already been made, and it was regarded with something akin to horror by a great many masons, whether owning allegiance to the Grand Lodge or not. There were many other differences, some of them probably going back to pre-Grand Lodge days….” “…over a large part of the three-quarters of a century ending nominally in 1813. It must also be made clear that the matters comprehended by this question have been much debated and every Masonic scholar has his individual opinion on many of them.”

With this contention holding strong from 1751 until 1813 there were many who conceded that we would not resolve this conflict. We did and have since then continued to strengthen the bonds of brotherhood across our world. It was by no degree easy to move past the differences we realized that unity was needed, it was in our obligations, regulations, and accepted that a house divided cannot stand. A similar schism has been experienced here in the United States of America.

On March 6, 1775 “Lodge #441, Irish Constitution, John Batt- Master, who was a sergeant in the British Army stationed under General Gage at Castle Williams, Boston, Mass., initiated Prince Hall” (Tupper, 2010). It is not this event that cause the schism but the events that ensued. OnJuly 4, 1776we declared our independence and spent the next several years fighting viciously to defend it. During this time the payment of dues to the Grand Lodge in England was difficult at best and many lodges fell into the arrears. Intensifying this difficulty, as we seen earlier, from 1751-1813 masonry in England was going through its own growing pains. As our nation slowly emerged and began governing herself our lodges fought for precedence over one another. Jurisdictions were formed and it was Accepted that the now United Grand Lodge of England was our mother lodge.

In 1784 Prince Hall was granted a warrant under the English registry.

“Freemason’s proudly proclaim the supremacy of the Grand Lodge of England. It was the Grand Lodge of England that granted a warrant on September 29, 1784 for African Lodge No. 459, and this warrant is still in existence.” (Milliken, n.d.)

“In 1813, it and the other English Lodges in the United States were erased. Incidentally, African Lodge #459 had been renumbered #370 in 1792 but the Lodge was unaware of this.” (Tupper, 2010)

Because of the times and many other factors African Lodge was cast aside by “mainstream” masonry during for formation of Grand Lodges within the US and eventually deemed irregular, regardless of the fact they held a valid charter from the mother lodge. Whether or not they went dormant for a number of years or whether or not they for a short time declared independence from the UGLE matters not for the UGLE now recognizes Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry, so should we. With this recognition come all the rights, lights and privileges up to and including the inter-visitation we desire.

It is with these facts in mind that I humbly request that we reassess our stance in regards to Prince Hall Affiliated Masonry and her Grand Lodges. Both rivers of masonry run parallel and are stepped in a deep & rich history, connecting these two rivers with the tributaries of joint recognition and inter-visitation would provide strength and unity. Each of us has obligated ourselves to abide by the rules, regulations, and edicts of our Lodge and Grand Lodge. We have proudly maintained these obligations and will continue to uphold them so long as the GAOTU permits. Amending these regulations to permit the exchange of Masonic communications between our neighbors, coworkers, and in many cases family members would provide a greater sense of pleasure in our craft.






For this cause to pass, please visit your state link below and fill out the petition. Print a copy to send and then submit the form, each form is pointed to the state specific Grand Lodge email. Texas PHA did not have an email available so I directed to the lodges.


Research links that provided much of the information above -
http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/11/prince-hall-myths-legends-and-facts/
http://mastermason.com/brothergene/education/ancients_and_moderns.htm
http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Essays/pha1.html

State Petition Forms -
TX
TX PHA
AL
AL PHA
AR (No GL Email)
AR PHA
FL
FL PHA (Still awaiting email)
GA
GA PHA (Still awaiting email)
KY
KY PHA
LA
LA PHA (Still awaiting email)
MS
MS PHA
SC
SC PHA
TN
TN PHA
WV
WV PHA

If anyone notices missing links or additional emails that should be included please inform me.

Here is the FB page https://www.facebook.com/#!/MasonicAmity once the website is complete I will release it on this thread.
 
Last edited:

chrmc

Registered User
I think this is a great initiative, but have to ask the question if we're certain that both sides actually want this?

I was at an event this weekend and met with some more knowledgeable brothers who told me that a large part of the hangup with moving this forward is coming from PHA. Apparently there is a fear that more integration will lead to the path of their grand lodge and subsequently the masonic ritual being consumed within GLoTX in the long run.

Not sure if this is true, or if the point has any merit, but though it was interesting to hear.
 

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
I think this is a great initiative, but have to ask the question if we're certain that both sides actually want this?

Over the years I have heard many many of our brethren, from both sides of masonry, discuss how nice it would be if we all could meet on the level. This is their opportunity to action their hours of discussion, we will see what happens.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I wish you luck on this endeavor. As a Mason in a jurisdiction with full recognition and visitation with my Prince Hall Brethren, I heartily support you.
 

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
Launched 2 days ago and we have 10 petitions submitted and 81 likes on FB. Filling out the form is easy, click send and you are done. Click print for those lodges without an email.
 

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
I must say that the brotherly love exhibited in this forum doesn't always mirror the sentiments on the facebook page.........

With an ad campaign targeting a FB audience of 272K I knew in advance that there were going to be a few individuals that were anti-masons... one already hit the page. Then there would be the esoteric conspiracy theorists... have had one of those already too. They are easy to deal with, it will be brethren opposed to joint recognition that will have to be dealt with gently. In writing the petition I visited EVERY regular Grand Lodge website in the US and read through the reasons for opposition in the AR lodge among others.

The big push is going to be getting people to actually fill out a petition for their state. Over the years I have been hung out to dry a number of times by people wanting something, desiring something, and then when I push for it.... I find I am standing there all alone.

As Bryan Maloney stated "...Masons are Workers." So I have faith that petitions will start making their way to the Grand Lodges. 10 already sent... 990 more and we might be able to say "Psalms 133 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity..."
 
Last edited:

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
are you talking about the FB page you set up or the MoT FB page?

The one I set up. I have an ad campaign that uses Masonic, freemason, masonry, York, etc. as keywords. The audience shows right around 272K. Right now I am paying .67 cents per impression, as of 4hrs ago the page had roughly 8,991 impressions, 148 clicks and 109 actions from the ad. Still only 10 petitions that I know of filled out but they are reading the petition at the Shrine/Scottish rite meeting tonight so there should be more shortly.
 
Last edited:

Ecossais

Registered User
According the annual report of the Committee on Fraternal Correspondence of the GL of Texas, it was the Prince Hall GL of Texas that cancelled the Spring meeting last year at which the two GLs were to amend the Agreement and allow visitation. The Committee also said that it stands ready to move forward. The GL of Texas approved that report. Also, is everyone aware that the PHGL invaded the jurisdiction of the GL of the Ivory Coast last year? Has that been resolved?

If the GL of Texas stands ready to resume talks with the PHGL, then shouldn't this petition be directed to the PHGL?
 

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
Also, is everyone aware that the PHGL invaded the jurisdiction of the GL of the Ivory Coast last year?

Do you have any additional details about that? Just for grins, would you say that the PHGLs established in their respective states in the North America invaded the jurisdiction of the "mainstream" (I really hate that description) GLs in their respective states in North America as well?

The reason I ask that is because it has been suggested that there may have been some additional circumstances that would have "allowed" that to happen. Again, I don't have all of the information about this situation, so any dialogue from me is just speculation.
 
Last edited:

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
The guestbook of http://www.mwuglflorida.org/ shows contacts from the Ivory Coast.

As of now we have:
This month - All Forms had 23 submissions FB Results.jpgForms Submitted.jpg
 
Last edited:

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Do you have any additional details about that? Just for grins, would you say that the PHGLs established in their respective states in the North America invaded the jurisdiction of the "mainstream" (I really hate that description) GLs in their respective states in North America as well?

At that time, there was wholesale denial of Freemasonry to men in the USA merely because they were black. The abnormal situation is because of a festering evil that still infects American culture. Is the claim being made that Ivory Coast Freemasonry denies men because they are black?
 

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
At that time, there was wholesale denial of Freemasonry to men in the USA merely because they were black. The abnormal situation is because of a festering evil that still infects American culture. Is the claim being made that Ivory Coast Freemasonry denies men because they are black?

It was suggested, but I honestly don't know.

Freemason Connect Premium App
 

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
It was suggested, but I honestly don't know.

Freemason Connect Premium App

When I was in Iraq there were 2 men from South Africa on our team. According to them racism is severe in some parts of the country, as if they were lagging behind us by 100 years. Having never visited the country myself the only thing I can rely upon are accounts from media (undependable at best) and tidbits from actual South Africans.

Either way the lodge issue seems to be resolved with Florida providing support.

On a related note brought about by a recent issue on FB -

Perhaps it is my upbringing in the military community or a fact of how I was raised but when I wake up in the morning I see a man (rather good looking on some days :cool: ), I see an American man, I see a man who needs to brush his hair, I see a man who needs to finish his class, or work on his car, or buy flowers for his wife, or take his kids to the soccer field. I do not see a Christian, I do not see a Muslim, I do not see a Hindi. I do not see a white man or a black man, color simply does not factor when I look at myself and it does not factor when I look at another..... The fact is I see a man... If someone looks at themselves or at another and sees anything other than a man (generically speaking of course if any ladies are reading this thread) then they have some internal issues to work out within themselves, do not drag me into it and certainly do not drag our beautiful craft into it.

All this is why masonry was a perfect fit for me, everything about the craft fits perfectly with my views, I was a mason before I was a mason.

This is also why I cannot understand the nonsense separation of these two valuable streams of masonry... it is upsetting that no matter who I ask all they can provide back is an attempt to make a simple matter overly complex. Adjust section II. and III. reprint and re-issue... repeat across the 10 remaining states. Problem solved, Masonry strengthened, we can resume attending to more important matters like saving our country from itself.
 

SeeKer.mm

Premium Member
Thanks for starting this petition. CT allows inter-visitation and dual membership...the harmony between both GL's is a great thing.
 

Blake Bowden

Administrator
Staff Member
Out of all the years I've been running this site and our facebook page, I've never heard one negative comment from those whose respective Grand Lodge's permit inter-visitation. Every single comment that I've read has nothing but praise and respect each other. I've been vocal on this issue, quieted down a bit, but this year I'm going to utilize everything at my disposal to get the word out.

The single question that always stumps those who oppose inter-visitation is "What would it hurt?" There aren't any negatives, unless you're a racist, and trust me, I know first hand that racism is alive and well in Freemasonry on BOTH sides. Maybe that's what fuels my desire to see this move forward.

One more thing to think about, if we had mutual recognition and visitation, those brave men serving overseas would be able to visit military Prince Hall Lodges that are under the Jurisdiction of the MWPHGLXTX. That's the kind of Masonry I want to be part of.
 
Top