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The big pink elephant in the room...

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Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
First off. I know this subject has been discussed many times here... That is of no consequence to this mason.

As long as racism exists I will confront it. I am a so called generation Xer as well...that accounts for something but not much to me because I am not waiting for folks to die off for Anything to change.

There is some truth in your theory and I certainly agree with alot of what you said but i believe that those that sit idle and say well just the way it is and it'll change in the next 10-25 years is asinine.

I do not bring the subject up every day and ive seen numerous threads on the subject on this forum and not said a thing, but lodges seem to like microcosms of society. Very hypercritical at times...

Even though some GL have opened up to visitation rights the subordinate lodges don't practice it. Because "that's just the way it is...Huh?" SMDH...




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Michael Hatley

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
First off. I know this subject has been discussed many times here... That is of no consequence to this mason.
Click to expand...


I mentioned this because you might find out a fair bit about the sentiment of the people on this forum by doing so. If you choose to ignore it, fine.

I had a feeling you'd respond the way you did though, which is why I made a point of saying "Not saying a new one isn't worthwhile, but you might be surprised to find that a pretty massive majority of folks who frequent this site are pretty strongly for strong relations, ending divides and so on and so forth."

What I'm saying is that most folks here are on the same sheet of music about improving the situation. Not to try to silence discussion on the matter. More so that you know that it isn't something we are ignoring.

I'll just try and leave it at that, for my part :)



 
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Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
I have passed.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder. If you read my post I often thank brothers for their comments and suggestions.

I do not come here to divide anyone. Again if you read my post it just the opposite. It's me working to find common ground amongst those that have suggestions and thoughts on the subject.


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Michael Hatley

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
*nods, I edited my post as you were responding - was afraid you might take the question the wrong way and wanted to tone it down overall.

Anyway - good luck and no offense intended.
 
Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
None taken. At the end of the day you are all my brothers and that's what's important to me.


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ARizo1011

ARizo1011

Premium Member
One Ancient charges of freemasonry once said " It is not the power of any men to make innovations in the body of Masonry"

That being said, you cannot change anything. There are people above you who can careless what you think or say.

In no way do I mean to offend you Brother Vincent. I know you will continue to strive for what you believe is right. But this is the way it is. If mainstream brothers don't want to partake in recognizing PHA brothers then let them do so. Us Brothers who do recognize the PHA brothers then let us Rejoice and treat each other as the Brothers we are. Love Brother.


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Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
I'm not offended in the least bit. I totally understand where you are coming from...
But if you don't have love and respect for others how in the world can call yourself a mason?

Maybe I'm naive to think that I could change the world, but that sure is hell isn't a reason to stop trying...


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ARizo1011

ARizo1011

Premium Member
You have a mind of great wisdom and a heart of a lion. Don't ever stop trying to change what you think should be different. Hope to meet you one day Brother.

And you are not naive. You just have a good heart and have realized certain things that shouldn't be.


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Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
Thank you brother for your kind words. Naw im probably just plain ol naive lol! . I really appreciate everyone's input here...
I am constantly trying to teach young black children their importance in this world. I just feel its my calling and they need that encouragement as much as possible from an adult that looks like them. And I try to teach them about themselves and their history prior to slavery. And to let them know slavery was not their fault.

So I get deeply involved in these issues and then I join the lodge and I see some of the same demons in freemasonry that I constantly fight in the world and its just sad...but I love freemasonry for it's core values.

I just wished we all actually practiced them...

Again thanks to all of you for being honest and having an intelligent and thoughtful discussion. Means alot to me. This lets me know together we will change the world!


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jwhoff

jwhoff

Premium Member
This discussion warms my 62-year old heart. As many of you have read me out through the years on this website: I do not expect to live long enough to see the day that a man is not (at least in part) sized up by the color of his skin. I know the generations now on the horizon will be less and less plagued by this curse on America. Members of my generation in both Europe and South America know less of the divide that separates men in America. They oft-times ask in puzzlement how we can (for the most part) overcome class but not race.

I am not foolish enough to blame it on the white man alone. I've met brown and black men who have been just as predjuce. Though, I must say, not as many. I've stood on the corner of a busy street every Octobor collecting money for the Shriner's (of who I am not a member) hospital charity. Believe me, the white men of my generation are the least charitable. Many simply have a chip on their shoulders. Someone is going to take something that belongs solely to them. This disappoints me greatly. I am a white man of the baby boom generaton. I have been cursed, told to get a job and to just straight go to hell by my own kind. I remember only two such encounters with black men and none with hispanics in those seven years. Never have I been scorned by females nor by young males of any ethnic group.

This discussion is healthy. Why any man, of any ethnic group, who calls himself a mason can hold such injust feelings escapes me. I know it has all the world to do with his local culture and values held within his family. BUT ... how could he have missed the vows he took and the message delivered to him upon the "angle of the square?"

The triangle, the oldest symbol in religion, teaches us we have a master, that we have a relationship with the master, and that the master created us all. And, therefore, we have a relationship with each other. How can any mason ignore this lesson?

I suspect that many grand jurisdictions still suffering under this cloud are biding their time and waiting for the generational changes that will signal the end to this madness.

Again, I must say that I am not blind to the shune of a black or brown man toward me. Bigotry exist in all three races at various levels. It is a natural law that every action is followed by an equal reaction. It's far past time to put ourselves in the other man's shoes. To those masons who hold such feeling I say: You are a weak link in the brotherhood and you must eventually come to grips with the obvious that you have long sought to ignore.

Know thyself brethren. Come to terms with your beliefs and value. We will all be better off when you do.
 
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Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
jwhoff said:
This discussion warms my 62-year old heart. As many of you have read me out through the years on this website: I do not expect to live long enough to see the day that a man is not (at least in part) sized up by the color of his skin. I know the generations now on the horizon will be less and less plagued by this curse on America. Members of my generation in both Europe and South America know less of the divide that separates men in America. They oft-times ask in puzzlement how we can (for the most part) overcome class but not race.

I am not foolish enough to blame it on the white man alone. I've met brown and black men who have been just as predjuce. Though, I must say, not as many. I've stood on the corner of a busy street every Octobor collecting money for the Shriner's (of who I am not a member) hospital charity. Believe me, the white men of my generation are the least charitable. Many simply have a chip on their shoulders. Someone is going to take something that belongs solely to them. This disappoints me greatly. I am a white man of the baby boom generaton. I have been cursed, told to get a job and to just straight go to hell by my own kind. I remember only two such encounters with black men and none with hispanics in those seven years. Never have I been scorned by females nor by young males of any ethnic group.

This discussion is healthy. Why any man, of any ethnic group, who calls himself a mason can hold such injust feelings escapes me. I know it has all the world to do with his local culture and values held within his family. BUT ... how could he have missed the vows he took and the message delivered to him upon the "angle of the square?"

The triangle, the oldest symbol in religion, teaches us we have a master, that we have a relationship with the master, and that the master created us all. And, therefore, we have a relationship with each other. How can any mason ignore this lesson?

I suspect that many grand jurisdictions still suffering under this cloud are biding their time and waiting for the generational changes that will signal the end to this madness.

Again, I must say that I am not blind to the shune of a black or brown man toward me. Bigotry exist in all three races at various levels. It is a natural law that every action is followed by an equal reaction. It's far past time to put ourselves in the other man's shoes. To those masons who hold such feeling I say: You are a weak link in the brotherhood and you must eventually come to grips with the obvious that you have long sought to ignore.

Know thyself brethren. Come to terms with your beliefs and value. We will all be better off when you do.
Click to expand...

I have the utmost resect for you elder. Because of men like you I know there is "light" at the end of the tunnel. And because you are a part of this discussion you are a part of the solution in my eyes. When our elders speak with a wise and humble tone it makes me think of the of the three jewels of an EA.
Think you sir for bringing a wise and beautiful tone to the discussion...

Thank you!



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Michael Neumann

Michael Neumann

Premium Member
I have been fighting this for some time. Sign a petition and send it out to those that will do the same https://www.facebook.com/MasonicAmity?ref=hl There is also a thread on this site in the Fraternal relations section.

The PHA is creating as much of a road block as 'mainstream' on this topic. I have even had PHA brethren call their grand lodge and get stone walled. To overcome this it is going to take a BIG push from BOTH sides.
 
Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
Michael Neumann said:
I have been fighting this for some time. Sign a petition and send it out to those that will do the same https://www.facebook.com/MasonicAmity?ref=hl There is also a thread on this site in the Fraternal relations section.

The PHA is creating as much of a road block as 'mainstream' on this topic. I have even had PHA brethren call their grand lodge and get stone walled. To overcome this it is going to take a BIG push from BOTH sides.
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiment as well... I've run into PHA brothers that are basically scarred from their treatment from some of these mainstream lodges,so they have turned their back on them all together and will not be talked out of changing...

There is work to be done on both sides if the fence and I am up for the challenge!


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dfreybur

dfreybur

Premium Member
Not being a NASCAR fan I'm not capable of having an intelligent discussion of race the way it means in the world going forward.

In the neighborhood where I grew up Jewish was considered a different race yet they looked like the folks at my family reunions. From the stroller as an infant I learned race was nonsense unless it was an Indianapolis versus Daytona discussion* So as my world expanded outside of my neighborhood I would not let such attitudes in my life. As a late boomer now 55 there is nothing unusual in my approach but as a late bloomer now 55 I'm still a young guy at lodge.

We're all mortal. Guys who grew up in a world that did not marginalize racists are dying rapidly. North Carolina has recognition. "This too shall pass." "Let peace begin with me." So I visit lodges in both jurisdictions and delay submitting a petition for affiliation to any Texas lodge. And I rightly fuss with myself that means I can't go through the line and end up with a vote in Texas Grand Lodge. My ability to vote at GL in Illinois and California doesn't matter on this issue. Both our grand lines have constant shared events and both our sets of lodges trade visits often in those states.

* Pylon races. Loud cars may be cool but louder propeller driven planes are a higher sport in a literal minded sense ...
 
Bro. Vincent

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
dfreybur said:
Not being a NASCAR fan I'm not capable of having an intelligent discussion of race the way it means in the world going forward.

In the neighborhood where I grew up Jewish was considered a different race yet they looked like the folks at my family reunions. From the stroller as an infant I learned race was nonsense unless it was an Indianapolis versus Daytona discussion* So as my world expanded outside of my neighborhood I would not let such attitudes in my life. As a late boomer now 55 there is nothing unusual in my approach but as a late bloomer now 55 I'm still a young guy at lodge.

We're all mortal. Guys who grew up in a world that did not marginalize racists are dying rapidly. North Carolina has recognition. "This too shall pass." "Let peace begin with me." So I visit lodges in both jurisdictions and delay submitting a petition for affiliation to any Texas lodge. And I rightly fuss with myself that means I can't go through the line and end up with a vote in Texas Grand Lodge. My ability to vote at GL in Illinois and California doesn't matter on this issue. Both our grand lines have constant shared events and both our sets of lodges trade visits often in those states.

* Pylon races. Loud cars may be cool but louder propeller driven planes are a higher sport in a literal minded sense ...
Click to expand...

Lol! This is absolutely a funny and fantastic post! Great post brother!


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Michael Hatley

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
Bro. Vincent said:
Wow! Thank you brother for that link, simply outstanding information. I have been truly enlighten about the buffalo soldiers. This is what I was referring to when I was saying written out of history. Great
Click to expand...

As an aside, I served in one of those units, which still exists today. 9th Cavalry, Headhunters Battalion, under 3rd Brigade (Grey Wolf) of 1st Cavalry Division. It has a lot to do with why the issue matters to me, because I was, in fact, a Buffalo Soldier and am proud to have been so. The vast majority of the men I served with, in a dangerous line of work were men of color, and in a unit with a deep and real history.
 
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