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The big pink elephant in the room...

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Bro. Vincent

Registered User
I hope that no one takes any of my questions or comment personally. I am curious because I don't know. Its not intended to come off as an evil whitey attitude. I have nothin but respect for this topic and the struggle that has been represented. Thanks

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Just an open and intelligent discussion. Open and respectful dialogue fosters love and understanding. But also one must have to be in a space where you are comfortable in your own skin to discuss these things.


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dew_time

Registered User
Just an open and intelligent discussion. Open and respectful dialogue fosters love and understanding. But also one must have to be in a space where you are comfortable in your own skin to discuss these things.


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Excellent!! You have brought knowledge, shown me honesty and have earned more respect in these few days than most people I've known all my life. If this is what being a Mason is going to bring to my life then I know for a fact I have finally found my place. Thank you for this and for representing yourself and the Masons the way you have. I truelly feel, that with you, I have made a brother for life.
Doug

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stuntman98

Registered User
We are open to all races, we have had Koreans, Filipinos, Whites, Africans and even Muslims in my mother lodge.

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT
 
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dew_time

Registered User
And Vice Versa...!

I assumed as much. Its kind of shame that both camps are open to all walks of life yet unity between them is an issue. I get it now, i don't fully understand why, but I don't think this forum would be the proper place to pose or discuss what's on my mind at this. point.

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baruchhc

Registered User
The lodge I belong to, Lebanon #837, in Frisco, Texas is also diverse. Not to long ago we had a muslim WM.

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stuntman98

Registered User
I always tell brothers that we all take the same obligation and if you belong to a regularly constituted lodge then you should be welcome by all men under the square

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
You guys are keeping the horse on life support. Lol. I know things are getting better on a diversity stand point. But now it may be more about how fast initiates are being initiated, passed and raised in lodges just to get their numbers up. I went through hell and back to be Master Mason, personally and physically and I'm not talking about hazing. My WM felt like my Cable Tow's and I were getting it easy in the beginning, so he turned up the juice on us...and made sure we understood what it was going to take to get our 3rd degrees...He said it took him a few years to get all three degrees, because they didn't cut any corners in proficiency back then...He told me us we would appreciate at it more and he wasn't kidding.

So maybe we should turn the corner on this because I think we all agree it's changing slowly, but we also have to push for change, because sometime change doesn't come easily. Now I got to re-dig a whole for this horse!
 

inked_biker

Registered User
I can say that my initiation, passing, and raising in a Prince Hall lodge, created some of the best memories. Also it created a tighter bond than what I have found in MS Masonry. Don't get me wrong they both offer great knowledge but when it comes to degree work and proficiency Prince Hall was hard nosed. I feel fortunate to have experienced both because I continue my Prince Hall traditions.

The only reason I left Prince Hall was because I moved to a city that doesn't have a Prince Hall lodge and the closest is 2 hour's away. And an 8am meeting 2 hours away is not how I want to spend a Saturday. Lol.

I think both Lodges have a lot to learn from each other. But as long as you let your light shine we will be the greatest fraternity once again.

PM Ace James
Yakima Compass Lodge 24 F&AM WA
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
Now that is some interesting insight since you are member of both GLs. I have heard that before from MS brothers, that it seems to be alot more stringent in the PHA degree work.

Man I was sweating bullets during my FC proficiency testing, because I had go back to all the EA stuff, all the way through to FC and then from EA to FC to MM stuff to be raised...My raising was during at districts in my jurisdiction, so there were about 20 other lodges being represented and about 70-80 people watching...Man you talk about pressure! But when it was over everyone single person came up to congratulate me and spent time with me. What a beautiful day. There was one MS brother there and he was extremely impressed with the degree work and "the skit".

I did say that didn't I lol!
 
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inked_biker

Registered User
Man if I could only tell how my study groups went, how much sweated and how scared I was. And all the memory work that I (we) had to put in. It's not like that in the MS lodge. We don't have the study groups, or the pressure and anticipation of getting the next degree.

My opinion is that a MS lodge believes in the more lengthy degree work. Where Prince Hall believes in doing it all from memory. And allows for more fun during degrees and study groups.

But like I have said if both lodges merged and took something from each other we would have a waiting list a mile long for candidates.

PM Ace James
Yakima Compass Lodge 24 F&AM WA
 

stuntman98

Registered User
Alright, putting down the horse beating stick!

PM Pride of Walton #110
SW Sons of Light #77
Spain Military Consistory Orient of Europe
Grand Technician WFOT
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Integration? I don't see that happening for several reasons and I can't see either GL really wanting that.

Do you perhaps mean unification here?

All of lodges I am or have been affiliated with are integrated in the sense of mixed membership. Same with tons of lodges I've visited over the years. In my experience that's been a done deal for longer than there's been recognition with visitation. In Texas with recognition but without visitation the lodges I have visited are mixed. The majority of the members, but not all of the members, look like the brothers in century old photos. Are there unmixed lodges? Not ones I have affiliated with, not exactly astonishing how that part worked out.

Unification is a different story. The original divergence happened for a bad reason but how we have two sibling traditions that are both well over two centuries old. Should unification be offered in states where recognition has been in place for years? It's under unofficial discussion in Illinois. I doubt it will come to vote any time soon. Two centuries of heritage,
 

JJones

Moderator
For some reason I read it as integration of both GLs rather than integration of race. Yes racial integration would be a good thing we just have to overcome some old mindsets.

For unification I'd have to ask why either GL would want to unify. Whos bylaws and rules would take precidence? Who would remain a Grand Officer and who gives up their seats? I think it'd be a mess to iron out...even though it might be better in the long run

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widows son

Premium Member
I agree, unification would be messy. I personally wouldn't want to give up a position. Plus I think both GLs and local lodges would want to preserve their own history.
 

inked_biker

Registered User
Oh it would definitely be a mess. I was just saying that each has its great ideals and way of doing things.

PM Ace James
Yakima Compass Lodge 24 F&AM WA
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
I hadn't that about offices and seats changing hands so on and so forth, yeah that would nuts.


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Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
For 3 years I was the only white member of a "black" church. I don't know what that has to do with a rodeo

The point I was making was that Bro. Doug seemed to be saying that NASCAR & rodeo are primarily "white folks" pastimes. Once he's been here a little longer, he'll find that it's not so.
 

Bro. Vincent

Registered User
Man if I could only tell how my study groups went, how much sweated and how scared I was. And all the memory work that I (we) had to put in. It's not like that in the MS lodge. We don't have the study groups, or the pressure and anticipation of getting the next degree.

My opinion is that a MS lodge believes in the more lengthy degree work. Where Prince Hall believes in doing it all from memory. And allows for more fun during degrees and study groups.

But like I have said if both lodges merged and took something from each other we would have a waiting list a mile long for candidates.

PM Ace James
Yakima Compass Lodge 24 F&AM WA

My study group was fun. We constantly challenged each other. But we also have each other so much love and support. If one person was not picking things up we go to his house and take turns working with him one on one.

I want to be a part of my lodges traveling degree team and I hope my cable tows want to do it with me... I think we'd be awesome at some point.


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