AF&AM vs F&AM?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Capricornguy, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Capricornguy

    Capricornguy Registered User

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    What's the difference? I'm in AF&AM. Does this mean I can't attend F&AM?
     
  2. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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  3. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    Short answer, it only has to do with whether your GL was originally chartered by the Antients or by the Moderns. Today, I have seen it has little bearing on the day to day and in the US has nothing to do with visitation as I believe all GL are in amity. Unless you are visiting between MS and PH which is still problematic in some locales.

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  4. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Who you can visit is based on who your GL is in amity with, it has nothing to do with the initials. Even the simple answer Winter gave isn’t completely correct. A perfect example is Virginia; founded by lodges from multiple Grand Lodges yet they ended up AF&AM.
    I personally find it more distracting than useful. Spell it out in your constitution but drop the suffix, the way UGLE does.
     
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  5. Winter

    Winter Premium Member

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    I was only giving a short explanation of the origin of the terms as used here in the United States and how they relate to visitation for the OP. Volumes could be written on chartering irregularities as both the Antients and Moderns chartered new Lodges in areas subsequently covered by a single Grand Lodge.
     
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  6. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    Firstly, The GL of PA is the only GL that is and has always been "Ancient." When the "Ancients" and the "Moderns" United, PA was the only Jurisdiction where no "Modern" Lodges existed and thus no change was made to the ritual of the "Ancients" or our Ahimon Rezon. PA is F&AM.

    In reality the "F&AM" and "AF&AM" can not be used to determine whether or not your GL is considered "Regular" by any other given GL. You just have to see what GLs your GL is in Amity with. To find this out, ask your Secretary.
     
  7. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    To futher this there are regular GLs who dont use either designation for various reasons.
     
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  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    No US GLs were warranted by the GLE’s. Some provincial GLs were, but only a few. It has no application for the majority of GLs. As noted, some GLs were formed by lodges from both GLs. Indeed, some have have changed their designation.
     
  9. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Love that story of yours.
     
  10. XUSMICO

    XUSMICO Registered User

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    SCGL AFM has been Ancient for 283 years, since UGLE entered the colonies in Charleston SC
     
  11. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    Sorry but what?
    The ancients and moderns united to form UGLE so either your GL has its roots in provincial GL under the ancients prior the unification or its a complete fraud.
     
  12. XUSMICO

    XUSMICO Registered User

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    to insult a regular and internationally recognized GL as a fraud is one the highest insults any Brother can deliver. I will no longer be part of this forum. I hope moderators take due note.
    MODERATOR/ADMIN Please remove my info from your files.
     
  13. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    UGLE has only existed for 207 years so something is off in your dating.
     
  14. Scoops

    Scoops Registered User

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    To accuse a brother of fraud simply for mistakenly mentioning UGLE rather than one of its precursors seems overly harsh and, quite frankly, unmasonic.

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  15. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    The South Carolina Grand Lodge website does indicate 283 years:


    Wikipedia reports that the South Carolina Grand Lodge was founded in 1737, which correctly makes it 283 years.

    I found an interesting article on its history, which seems to be rather complex:
    1. It began as a Provincial Grand Lodge
    2. until it declared its independence from the Grand Lodge of England and during this period, eight years were lost to history.
    3. Next, we had two rival Grand Lodges with the second of the two, embarrassingly chartering more lodges than its predecessor.
    4. Then there was a merging of the two that was not achieved
    5. and finally, a compromise and reconciliation of the two Grand Lodges to form what we now have today.
    The article goes through its history in detail.

    Tom Lewis published some interesting notes on https://www.etiwan95.com/masonicfaq.shtml and debunks the common belief that Grand Lodges with “Ancient” in their titles are descended from “Ancient” lodges while the F&AM ones are descended from the “Moderns”. He then offers some further detail regarding some of the Lodges within the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free Masons of South Carolina.

    Lodge Solomon was chartered in 1735 and seems to be the oldest Lodge within the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free Masons of South Carolina.

    It seems to me rather rash to take a decision like that based on one post from one member of the forum. Unless I'm missing something.
     
  16. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    I do tend to come of as a bit harsh and hostile sometimes.
    I do apologise as the tone was a bit more aggressive then what I meant.
     
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