An honest question for all.

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by BEDickey, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    Hello, I'm Brandon and I'm a Hermeticist. I wish to ask an honest question about Volume of Sacred Law. As a Hermeticist the 78 loose leaf pages of the Tarot, also called the "Book of Thoth" or "Emerald Tablets of Hermes" is my Holy Book. In fact my studies have proven to me that the Tarot predates the Bible as a Holy Book. Man learned to write symbols before words, so it only stands to reason that the first Holy Book was written in picture and symbols. As such I wish to ask, would I be with in my rights to ask for my Holy Book to be present on the alter at my initiation? I have accepted that I can't take my oaths on them, but another poster said it best, as a Christian if he was told to take his vows on a Koran or Torah it would be the equivalent of taking his vows on a dictionary, no meaning to him. I understand the request seems a bit off, but I would like everyone's honest opinion. Thanks for your time.

    Brandon

    Also if anyone wishes I would gladly explain my reasoning as to how the Tarot is in fact Holy Scripture.
     
  2. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Hello there, welcome to the forums.

    I have to ask, as I haven't delved into Hermetism much myself, but I'm curious what your beliefs are as a Hermeticist? More specifically however, what are a Hermeticist's belief in deity?

    I hope you don't mind me asking.
     
  3. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    Of Course

    I have no problem with that at all! The search for Light is the search for answers to life mysteries.
    Hermeticism is a philosophical religion dating from around the same time as Christianity, though it's roots are much older, going back to the Ancient Egyptian and Greek Mystery schools, similar in that respect to Freemasonry. It's deity is "panetheistic", called The All, The Absolute, The Father, The Universal Mother, among many names. "Panetheistic" beliefs are best described with the Hermetic maxim "While All is in The All, it is equally true that The All is in All." Our deity is by necessity androgynous, containing both masculine and feminine aspects in perfect equilibrium.
    The Story goes that Hermes Tristmegistus (thrice great Hermes, also Thoth or Mercurius ter Maximus) fell asleep on a hill and met Poimandres the Nous(mind) of the Supreme, who taught Hermes the 3 parts of the Wisdom of the Whole Universe, Alchemy(knowledge of the sun/light/nature), Astrology(knowledge of the moon/stars/darkness) and Theurgy(knowledge and use of Divine Magic). Those who master all 3 as Hermes did, is able to move with the Universe in such a way as to be in a state similar to Lucid Dreaming, even while awake.
    To acquire these teaching we use the 4 Hermetic Arts - Astrology, Qabalah, Numerology and especially the Tarot, where the 3 others come together, in a most amazing way. It is said that someone with the Tarot, true knowledge of its use, locked away for years can emerge with complete knowledge on any subject.
    An easy way of seeing it is this way, if God is the shepherd and we are the sheep, could you imagine God running around with a shepherds' crook trying to gather the sheep together or defend them? No of course not, the thought alone makes me laugh honestly. He uses the Sheep dog for that reason. Hermes is that sheep dog, conveying God' gnosis and love to those who are ready for it, but it is not for the faint hearted or uncommitted. The knowledge will only be available to the just, the true, the honest and moral Man or Woman. Some evil people can and have gained some of that Gnosis but the All will never give it's highest secrets to the undeserving. Hermes himself was told to be the one to gift Man with all knowledge inc. writing, geometry, medicine and all other "high arts", and has been thought of as possibly being Moses, or even King Solomon himself.
    So much could be said about Hermeticism I could not list it all here, but feel free to ask any and all questions, I will gladly answer. I hope this has some what answered your question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  4. LCWebb

    LCWebb Premium Member

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    Hermes as in Mercury?
     
  5. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    yes

    Yes indeed they are one in the same. Mercurius Ter Maximus was his Roman name, Hermes Tristmegistus his Greek and Thoth his Ancient Egyptian.
     
  6. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    That sounds like a very interesting subject, thank you for sharing.

    I remember that I've tried getting into the subject once before and tried looking up the emerald tablets online, but what I found was either very condensed or I simply wasn't very receptive at the time. Maybe after I finish college I won't feel so distracted when trying to study things like that. :)

    As for using the Tarot as your holy book, I'd suggest your best bet would be to discuss it with the WM of your lodge. I hope someone would correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand correctly, as long as you have a belief in a monotheistic deity then you have a right to request usage of the appropriate holy book.

    Don't quote me on that unless someone else confirms it though, I've been known to be mistaken before, once. ;)
     
  7. Paul E. Wunsche

    Paul E. Wunsche Registered User

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    If you don't mind my asking, why do you want to be a Mason?
     
  8. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    I do not mind at all! I, as most here I believe, think of my self as a good man. However I also wish to be a better man. I have seen most Freemasons as honest, independent, moral, upstanding members of their community. Those are the same foundations I wish for me and my family. Some of my Hero's, the Founding Fathers mostly, were Freemasons and I would very much enjoy sharing that with them. Also I will admit, the esoteric nature of Freemasonry draws me a bit as well, as my own religion once was a "mystery religion" just as Christianity once was, complete with its own rituals, those have long sense disappeared but I believe, for me, Freemasonry can help to fill the void that is left. While I know Freemasonry is not a religion, it can help Men find their own way of becoming closer to God. The Charity done by Freemasons is another aspect in and of it self, I have a great desire to give back to the world that has given me so much beauty to behold. Also a lot of what I know of my Faith comes from Masonic writers such as Manly Palmer Hall and A.E. Waite. And a Knight Templar Mason once told me that the 3 greatest libraries in the USA are Masonic in origin, and I do so love books and knowledge. These are but a few of the reasons, but I think they are the most important
     
  9. LukeD

    LukeD Registered User

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    Well said.
     
  10. gnarledrose

    gnarledrose Registered User

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    'Round these here parts (Utah), you would be invited to use whatever holy writings you chose for both your degrees and to have them available along the Holy Bible in regular meetings. The brothers around here, however, seem shy about asking, so I've only seen an alternate book used in lodge once.
     
  11. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    You are correct.
     
  12. mathew

    mathew Registered User

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    good on you

    I am from a lodge in Australia and I think it it is great what you want to do.
    What you wish to do with your own holy book is just the kind of thing (and person) to carry freemasonry into the 21st century.
    Well done.
     
  13. mch4970

    mch4970 Premium Member

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    BEDickey, I think you should ask if important to you. Just prepare yourself for what ever answer you may receive in return.
     
  14. bullrack33

    bullrack33 Premium Member

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    BE, it is my personally opinion that you would be well within your right to ask that your Book of Faith be present on the Alter. You might it interesting to know that there are a few Wiccans in my Lodge.
     
  15. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    indeed

    Indeed I have heard of that, but have never seen it. If I might ask do they use the Wiccan Rede as their Holy Scriptures? Does their faith cause much contention between them and those brothers more fundamental religious beliefs?
     
  16. bullrack33

    bullrack33 Premium Member

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    While the Rede is indeed a important part of Wicca, it is only a small part of their Book of Faith and there has been absolutely no contention caused by their faith.
     
  17. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    good

    This is good to hear! And most encouraging I might add.
     
  18. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    I think you are walking a very thin line. Not to speak ill of any Worshipful Brother but most of them are not going to be well read enough in this topic to give you a fair answer on being in their lodge.

    My issue is not with the Hermeticism but with the pantheism. I have known many Christian Hermeticist but pure Hermeticism and the requirements of Freemasonry worry me on a personal level.

    You identify as a pantheist Pantheist, I would argue do not fit with the requirement of a monotheist God, because as a pantheist you can not say that you do not recognize one creator or GAOTU. Pantheist recognize all gods, because they are part of The All, this is where it gets so sticky.

    I wish you luck, but I have my doubts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  19. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    good!

    Happy to see you know a bit about Hermeticism. Thought I must correct myself, I typed Panetheistic rather then Panentheistic, thought they are similar, the later holds that a slightly different meaning. Pantheistic beliefs hold that nature and god is one, and creation is a natural act, and generally has many different gods. Where as Panentheistic beliefs hold that there is one creator who grows with the universe, but recognizes other beliefs as being a part of itself. An easy way to think of it is this way. Think of a beautiful stained glass window, with all of its colors. As light that shines threw the window(religion) might be of a different color(denomination) but the light behind the window is all the same. Thus you can have people practicing Hermeticism as Christians or Muslims, but the pure Hermeticist worship the light behind the glass, the universal truth behind all religions.
     
  20. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    My eyes must be bad, could have sworn you put Pantheistic in your original not Panetheistic. Panetheism is monotheistic whilst Pantheism is not.
     

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