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Blue Degrees vs. Red Degrees

Bro_Vick

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
I don't know if there are any brothers from Louisiana on here, but I have a question. Some might know that the A&ASR has it's own 1 - 3 degrees of Freemasonry which is commonly referred to as "Red Degrees", in which the EA, FC and MM are conferred by the A&ASR vice the Grand Lodge AF&AM or F&AM. This was common in both South Carolina and Louisiana in the 1800s, and were called "Red Lodges". They were later chartered over to the Grand Lodge and stopped performing the Red Degrees and conformed to the AF&AM "Blue Degrees".

It is my understanding that once a year the A&ASR in Louisiana is given special dispensation to preform the ritual of the first three degrees of the A&ASR, for all Master Masons to see.

Does anyone know if this is still happening, before my marathon of deployments there was notice sent out ~2007, but haven't heard anything since, and I would like to make the pilgrimage to see it, and want to plan accordingly with my job.

Any info would be much appreciated.

-Bro Vick
 
JJones

JJones

Moderator
I was under the impression that 'red lodges' and therefore 'red degrees' were Yorkrite?

I'd be interested in hearing more about this myself.
 
Brent Heilman

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
I would be interested also. I would love to make the trip if at all possible. I think I will be doing some research to see what I can find.
 
Benton

Benton

Premium Member
JJones said:
I was under the impression that 'red lodges' and therefore 'red degrees' were Yorkrite?
Click to expand...

Red lodges are Scottish Rite in affiliation. The basic three degrees that the vast majority of American Masons know in their blue lodge are the 'York Rite' version of the degrees.
 
H

Huw

Guest
Hi Bro Vick.

The A&ASR version of the Craft Degrees is standard practice in one District of GLoLA. Er ... 16th district (New Orleans, Jefferson, Kenner, Lacombe) if I recall correctly. The rest of GLoLA uses a Webb-form ritual pretty similar to other US GLs, so far as I know.

Louisiana appears to be the only place in the world where this form of the ritual is worked in English, although it's quite common practice in French-speaking countries and almost universal practice in Spanish-speaking countries. Here in UGLE, interestingly, it's explicitly forbidden even as a demonstration.

T & F,

Huw
 
H

Huw

Guest
Hi John.

Benton said:
Red lodges are Scottish Rite in affiliation. The basic three degrees that the vast majority of American Masons know in their blue lodge are the 'York Rite' version of the degrees.
Click to expand...

Mmmm, well, sort of, but that's a bit of a retro-fitting. Bear in mind that the Craft rituals are older than the additional Rites, and also that the US-style division of additional Degrees into "York" and "Scottish" Rites is not quite the same arrangement as used in a lot of other countries.

It'd be more historically-accurate to say that the Craft Degrees you usually use are British-type and that your York Rite additional Degrees are also (mostly) British-type, whilst the A&ASR Craft Degrees are French-type and that your Scottish Rite additional Degrees are also (mostly) French-type. But of course that's a pretty cumbersome way of putting it, and even so it still isn't totally accurate.

Thus I'll agree that way you put it is a reasonable shorthand description, although it's misleading if taken too literally.

T & F,

Huw
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bro_Vick

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
Huw said:
The A&ASR version of the Craft Degrees is standard practice in one District of GLoLA. Er ... 16th district (New Orleans, Jefferson, Kenner, Lacombe) if I recall correctly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, after some research I believe that Germania Lodge No 46 is one of these lodges (http://www.germania46.org/), I tried to go to the 16th district website and could not find any additional information. It is interesting that it is forbidden in UGLE, I am afraid to ask if Texas has a similar restriction. :)

S&F,
-Bro Vick
 
Brent Heilman

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
Just to see these degrees would be something special. I understand the EA is particularly impressive. May have to make a trip down there sometime soon.
 
Benton

Benton

Premium Member
Huw said:
Mmmm, well, sort of, but that's a bit of a retro-fitting. Bear in mind that the Craft rituals are older than the additional Rites, and also that the US-style division of additional Degrees into "York" and "Scottish" Rites is not quite the same arrangement as used in a lot of other countries.
Click to expand...

I know it's not entirely accurate. That's why I put 'York Rite' in quotes, because it's not really a true statement. A certain connotation was implied, but I suppose not communicated well online. :)
 
Bro. Stewart P.M.

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
Bro_Vick said:
I don't know if there are any brothers from Louisiana on here, but I have a question. Some might know that the A&ASR has it's own 1 - 3 degrees of Freemasonry which is commonly referred to as "Red Degrees", in which the EA, FC and MM are conferred by the A&ASR vice the Grand Lodge AF&AM or F&AM. This was common in both South Carolina and Louisiana in the 1800s, and were called "Red Lodges". They were later chartered over to the Grand Lodge and stopped performing the Red Degrees and conformed to the AF&AM "Blue Degrees".

It is my understanding that once a year the A&ASR in Louisiana is given special dispensation to preform the ritual of the first three degrees of the A&ASR, for all Master Masons to see.

Does anyone know if this is still happening, before my marathon of deployments there was notice sent out ~2007, but haven't heard anything since, and I would like to make the pilgrimage to see it, and want to plan accordingly with my job.

Any info would be much appreciated.

-Bro Vick
Click to expand...

Yes there is a special dispensation for a couple of Lodges within the GLoLA to practice the "Red Lodge" Scottish Rite ritualistic EA, FC, & MM degrees. There is only one degree "team" composed of members from the 16th District.

Bro_Vick said:
Yeah, after some research I believe that Germania Lodge No 46 is one of these lodges (http://www.germania46.org/), I tried to go to the 16th district website and could not find any additional information. It is interesting that it is forbidden in UGLE, I am afraid to ask if Texas has a similar restriction. :)

S&F,
-Bro Vick
Click to expand...

The GLoTX does not conduct any of the Red Lodge degrees.

choppersteve03 said:
That would be cool to be the holder of red and blue degrees. How would one get the reds?
Click to expand...

One obtains the Red version of the degrees in the same manner as you would any other degree, petition for the degree. I will say however, that the observation of the Red Lodge ritualistic degrees (EA, FC, or MM) is open to any active Master Mason of any recognized jurisdiction of the GLoLA.

The O.K. Allen Lodge that I belong to operates under the Red ritual.
 
Bro. Stewart P.M.

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
Bro_Vick said:
I thought I was pretty clear that they don't, the lodge I mentioned is in LA, not TX.

-Bro Vick
Click to expand...

Correct. I was not trying to dispute that fact.

...It is not that far to travel in order to see theses degrees for yourself either. The GLoLA usually tries to host these degrees in a central location, the last few that I am aware of were in Shreveport, LA.
 
RedTemplar

RedTemplar

Johnny Joe Combs
Premium Member
To witness the Red Degrees is on my bucket list. Somebody please post these degrees well in advance as to when they are to be conferred. I would love to bring a caravan with me.
 
P

Parafaxitas

Registered User
Referring to the Scottish Rite Craft degrees as "red degrees" is a relatively new invention. Until recently, they were simply known as the craft degrees. The higher degrees of french and german masonry were often considered red degrees, in contrast the blue degrees of craft masonry. As huw pointed out, the craft degrees of the scottish rite are french in origin, but again, the red degrees usually refer to "High Grade Masonry." So it would be more appropriate to call the Scottish Rite degrees 4-33 "red" degrees and the EA-MM craft degrees.

Another example of "red" lodges appear in New York, where Lodge Garibaldi performs the craft degrees of the Rite of Memphis, which are often mistaken as Scottish Rite Craft degrees.
 
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