Can we discuss the concept of 'God' or GAOTU?

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by Derek Barclay, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    I'm trying to understand what one may mean when they use the word 'God.' The concept takes on as many forms as there are minds to think it. So if anyone feels like sharing their ideas, I'd welcome them.

    It seems to me that all but one of the characteristics that are attributed to God, by those who have expressed it to me, aligns with my concept of existence in general. The one that doesn't is the anthropomorphic or conscious aspect that so many seem to attribute to God.

    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    It may be of use to distinguish Deism from Theism.

    While there are many variations on the nature of deism, in the light of the Star Wars series, we might consider that theists follow particular gods, usually depicted in human form, while deists consider an all-pervading intelligence.

    Hence: May the Force be with you!

    Arguably some of the deeper green areas of environmentalism are spiritual (rather than religious), respecting Life as it manifests Itself in ecosystems and all matter.

    Thus, talking to your auto is arguably a form of deism - recognizing the Life intelligence innate in all forms
     
  3. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    Ok, so if I said I believe that the process of living and the world in which one lives can be distinguished but they are not separable, could that be comparable to a deistic philosophy? Using certain terms like 'intelligence' and 'spiritual' are, to me, loaded with unintended meanings.

    I cannot find a reason to believe that the experience of being conscious is a quality that the universe has, nor anything that may "oversee" said universe. Without a reason to believe something to be true, I cannot believe that it is.

    Does this sound like deism to you? I've tried giving these questions more deliberate thought over the last few years, and can't seem to draw any lasting conclusions.
     
  4. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >the process of living and the world in which one lives can be distinguished but they are not separable, could that be comparable to a deistic philosophy

    It is a standard approach in Western education to teach the human to regard him/herself as separate from the rest of existence: I think therefore I am!

    Being embedded as a semi-functional component in a planetary life system is properly deistic.

    >I cannot find a reason to believe that the experience of being conscious is a quality that the universe has

    And yet synchronicity is widely experienced. "Jung's belief was that, just as events may be connected by causality, they may also be connected by meaning."

    How does synchronicity occur without some intelligent recognition of circumstance and meaning?

    Whether intelligence can only exist in the context of consciousness is more difficult. For example my body learned how to dance while my mind never could work fast enough to get the hang of it.

    >Without a reason to believe something to be true, I cannot believe that it is.

    So is your mind your most profound faculty? If it is, is it so easily manipulated that it accepts reasons as sufficient for it to change?

    What then is heart knowledge?
     
  5. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    And yet synchronicity is widely experienced. "Jung's belief was that, just as events may be connected by causality, they may also be connected by meaning."
    I'm not sure I follow. If I understand the words, I take it you mean coincidences. If so, I'm not sure how that relates to discerning the true workings of existence and what is the best way to go about doing it, if any.

    How does synchronicity occur without some intelligent recognition of circumstance and meaning?
    It would take consciousness to recognize it if it does happen, but not necessarily to create the scenario that would allow it to happen. The meaning could only exist inside the mind of the intelligent observer.

    So is your mind your most profound faculty? If it is, is it so easily manipulated that it accepts reasons as sufficient for it to change?
    It appears to be my only faculty. Yes, that appears to be how it works.

    What then is heart knowledge?
    I don't know. From my view, the heart does not think or feel. Feelings and emotions are results of the mind as well.

    I must make it clear: I believe that it's possible that all of my beliefs regarding the existence of any metaphysicalities could be wholly wrong, but the only way I could see that being true is if there was an intentional misleading/fraud being put upon the observer.
     
  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >coincidences. If so, I'm not sure how that relates to discerning the true workings of existence

    How do you think that Existence should communicate with someone like yourself?

    >The meaning could only exist inside the mind of the intelligent observer

    A very interesting proposition. So before the development of intelligent beings there was no meaning? What then for the nature of Existence itself?

    >It appears to be my only faculty

    I do hope not. For example taste and smell are used to detect poisonous food. The body then usually spits out the food without reference to the mind.

    >From my view, the heart does not think or feel.

    "To ancient Egyptians, the heart was the seat of emotion, thought, will and intention, evidenced by the many expressions in the Egyptian language which incorporate the word jb. Unlike in English, when ancient Egyptians referenced the jb they generally meant the physical heart as opposed to a metaphorical heart."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_conception_of_the_soul

    Consider what you experience in the use of will and intention. Whence do they come?

    >it's possible that all of my beliefs regarding the existence of any metaphysicalities could be wholly wrong

    Here is a test I used to use with people first treading the spiritual path: Do you believe that Life has meaning, or do you know that Life has meaning?

    I could often tell just from looking at a person whether they were a knower rather than a believer.

    I have sent you a link to an exercise that will establish you as a knower - if you practice enough.
     
  7. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    This requires hard work by a human that practices harmlessness

    [​IMG]
     
  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >Can we discuss the concept of 'God' or GAOTU?

    In the past, after the lodge opened I would sometimes see a spot of bright golden light approach above the temple. According to my experiments it was the light of the GAOTU, the Being that uses this universe as a body of manifestation.

    It is however almost a decade since I have seen that light approach. Perhaps I am less worthy, perhaps it is the various lodges, or perhaps the cosmic tide has gone out.

    As it happened the GAOTU seemed to be male, but when I looked further I seemed to see another universe where the same GAOTU was female. Are these parallel universes, or perhaps better, twin universes?
     
  9. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    That sentence seems to assume that your thoughts create the concept of GAOTU, which may lead you to doubt whether the concept of GAOTU exists independently from your thoughts (see Platonism). I'm not saying that it's wrong, as I couldn't possibly know. However I like to shield the idea of GAOTU from relativist truism – just because someone claims, 'This is my truth', it doesn't make it true – and think of the existence of the GAOTU as separate from my capability (or lack thereof) of conceptualising it.

    Anthropomorphism is used in different ways by different religions, but it is not a necessary attribute of the GAOTU, as I understand it.

    Similarly I find that the conscious aspect is often a derivation from anthropomorphism. We often like to define "conscious" in the same way as it applies to us. However "conscious" could be thought in a form that we cannot experience. In my limited understanding, "conscious" becomes a mere bookmark – a symbol if you like – for something our mind is ill-equipped to comprehend.
     
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  10. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    >A very interesting proposition. So before the development of intelligent beings there was no meaning? What then for the nature of Existence itself?

    That appears to be the case. I dont understand the second question.

    >I do hope not. For example taste and smell are used to detect poisonous food. The body then usually spits out the food without reference to the mind.

    Those things rely on the mind in order to function. Even instinctual reflexes must go through the mind.


    >Consider what you experience in the use of will and intention. Whence do they come?

    I have no idea. My idea of free will is a lot more limited than I imagine most people's is.

    >Do you believe that Life has meaning, or do you know that Life has meaning?

    I do not believe it does. That does not mean 'I know it does not.'
     
  11. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >Even instinctual reflexes must go through the mind.

    In the 1790s Galvani discovered that a frog corpse would twitch its legs when a voltage was applied. It seems that reflex does not require a mind.

    >>What then for the nature of Existence itself? > I dont understand the second question.

    In the Hindu tradition, Existence manifests of a period and then demanifests during a pralaya when there is no time and no space. At the end of the pralaya, Existence reappears with the benefit of the learnings of the previous manifestation. Thus we say that our God is a god of love. Prior to the pralaya our God was a god of intelligence. After the next pralaya we expect that our God will be a god of will.

    > I do not believe it does. That does not mean 'I know it does not.'

    As you move your experience up the frequency spectrum we call Reality, you will necessarily become a knower.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  12. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    The mind seems to me to just be a phenomenon of the brain.
     
  13. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    And yet people that have had no heart beat and no brain waves, when later resuscitated can recount what was happening in the operating theatre while they were dead.

    What then was the mechanism of consciousness?

    It is more correct to say that the mind can use the brain as a vehicle.
     
  14. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    I'm so exhausted from not knowing how to best live my life. How can I force myself to believe in free will. All I do is dream. I have no motivation to act. I've tried to cultivate motivation, but it seems to never work.
     
  15. TheThumbPuppy

    TheThumbPuppy Registered User

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    I wouldn't like to misspeak, but a few words that you have used have rung in a certain way.

    I have no intention to offend, but you may want to consider that you may be suffering from a chemical unbalance and you may like to talk about it with your family doctor.

    If I'm barking at the wrong tree, please accept my apologies and ignore my message.
     
  16. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    No you're not wrong. I've struggled with mental illness most of my life. I can't afford therapy, and the only sources of discounted or free therapy seem to come from people pushing pills or religion.
     
  17. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    It seems to me that connecting more strongly to the Source of Life is critical to all forms of health. Fortunately the stream of Light that manifests the life force in humans is anchored in the heart. Thus the processes of becoming more heart-centered result in Life itself bringing the human's physical, emotional and mental bodies into greater harmony and wholeness.

    The problem of course is that adverse influences constantly distract from Life enhancing practices.
     
  18. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    What processes would you recommend? Meditation? Yoga? Parkour? :D
     
  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I have already provided you with a link in the conversation for the heart exercise but it seems that your mind distracted you. Distraction by invalid thoughts is an important techique for delaying human spirituality.
     
  20. Derek Barclay

    Derek Barclay Registered User

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    Ok well I'll either find the will, be shown the will, or be forced by fate. I can't say I much appreciate the experience, but atleast I get to experience.
     

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