Causes of the US Civil War

Discussion in 'The Refreshment Lounge' started by lwdisney, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. lwdisney

    lwdisney Registered User

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    I love history, especially the Civil War. The cause of the war is still debated today and some on the Southern side say states rights and others (the modern racists) say slavery.
    I was curious what yall thought about it. And is "Civil War" an accurate name? What would be better? If the South had won, would slavery still exist and would the CSA eventually have rejoined the Union? If Texas or any other state seceded, would you support them? I ask that question because a lot of people are advocating seccession today.
     
  2. lwdisney

    lwdisney Registered User

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    oh and what thoughts do you have when you see someone flying the Confederate flag?
     
  3. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I'll go with "irreconcileable differences."

    Depends on whether the guy with the flag also has a shaved head or not...:p
     
  4. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    As a Texan the Confederate flag does nothing for me. Texas was Texas before the CSA was the CSA.

    States rights = slavery. Or, it was the states right to have slavery. The fight had been brewing since to Constitutional Convention. It was a true civil war. War of Northern aggression is bull to anyone who understands the history. Armed insurrection will not be tolerated. Texas succession was a black mark on our history. We asked to join the Union.

    However there was reason to believe that Texas would be lumped in with the South by the Union anyway, so why not just join the CSA and hope for the best? We probably should have seceded and become our own nation again until the end of the war. There is a great feaux documentary about the civil war from the prospective of if the south won. The conclusions were very interesting. The CSA essentially goes on to do away with slavery naturally. I think its called 'CSA'.

    I have noticed that Rick Perry loves America so much that he thinks the destruction of the Union is better than going on. How Patriotic.
     
  5. JBD

    JBD Premium Member

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    If you think it was about slavery re-read the emancipation proclimation.
    See who was really "freed"
    It was states rights and no, I am not a racist - never was, never plan to be.
    There were slaves in the North and the South.

    I didn't read the proclimation with open eyes until my son showed it to me after he finished Constitutional Law in Law School - - really an interesting read.

    The real story is not what I was taught in school
     
  6. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    I know you are not a racist. Saying it all boiled down to states rights isn't racist.

    The proclamation freed all slaves in states engaged in insurrection. Of course. it was tactic amied at weakining the enemy. Notice Lincoln didnt issue it the day the CSA was formed. It was much later.

    The war happened because of Southern resistance to federal control, or states rights. What exactly was the federal government trying to control that got the Southern feathers ruffled? Slavery. So what did it boil down to? Either/Or. Doesn't really matter. Both seem to point to each other.
     
  7. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Most of Texas was pro-Union. James Webb Throckmorton, Sam Houston and 6 others voted against secession. Interestingly both were Masons... You also have to understand that prior to the Civil War, the country didnt have the attitude that the Fed Government was over them. The individual states and residents placed loyalty to their state first, then to the Fed Gov. In fact many lawyers believe that they did have the right to succeed prior to the Civil War.

    An interesting note: Throckmorton was elected govornor of Texas after the war but was forced out by Sheridan because he didnt believe that Throckmorton was providing protection for the freed former slaves or following the direction that the military occupation wanted him to.
     
  8. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    History will tell you that the only reason why the Federal Government chose to force the CSA States back in to the Union was simply the Import/Export Tax profit lost by them leaving the Union. The "drive" for the Union was to re-establish its income. The major taxable export at that time was cotton, and almost all of it was grown in the South and sold to Europe. If you look at timing, the Emancipation Proclamation (which only freed slaves in the South) was drafted just in time for Europe to grant her full support of the CSA. Funny how the "new" support scared the heck out of the Union because they knew at that time the renewed support could change the course of the War. Europe also being Slavery based wanted nothing to do with the Proclamation.

    The facts of why and where are just as cloudy about the War of Northern Aggression as the JFK assasination IMO; due in part to the "victors go the spoils" I will leave you with a couple of my favorite quotes from the era, and one modern one from Pankow...

    "Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suites them better. This is a most valuable and most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can may revolutionize and make their own of so many of the territory as they inhabit." ~ Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848

    "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man I am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything." ~ Abraham Lincoln, September 18, 1858 –Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas in Charleston Illinois

    "…My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union and is not, either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that…" ~ August 25, 1862 letter to Honorable Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune by Abraham Lincoln

    "We could have pursued no other course without dishonor. And as sad as the results have been, if it had all to be done over again, we should be compelled to act in precisely the same manner." ~ General Robert E. Lee

    "Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youths will be trained by Northern school books, their version of the War; and taught to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects of desertion." ~ General Patrick Cleburne


    To me, the campaign by certain groups to remove all the symbols and memorials to our Southern past amounts to the same thing...a desecration of graves. Every flag or monument that is removed, every plaque taken down, every school or street or bridge that is re-named, is no different from a broken tombstone. It is wanton and hateful violence directed at the dead who can no longer defend themselves.'' ~ John Field Pankow
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  9. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Good Post. My own Greatx3 Grandfather was a a Col in the Texas Calvary. And I honor that part of my family history and heritage. Certainly heroes were on both sides. It's kinda like figuring out who caused the divorce when you're friends with both sides.
     
  10. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    4G-Grandfather
    34th Arkansas Infantry, Co. D. -CSA +5 other brothers killed at Pea Ridge

    ...and so I am fair also 4G-Grandfather - Illinois Infantry -USA

    So I qualify for both Sons of Union Veterans, and Sons of Confederate Veterans, I am a past Camp Commander of the latter...
     
  11. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    The War of Northern Aggression, you mean?

    When "All the United States of America" became "THE United States of America"

    it was the beginning of the end. it was all about control. rabble rabble rabble rabble! /tinfoil.
     
  12. RJS

    RJS Guest

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    No, no...before the war it was said "The United States are America" after the war is where we get the "United States of America".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2009
  13. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    I get way to emotionally involved in these conversations, so I am not going to. I'll just through this out there, there was nothing "Civil" about it.

    GreatX3 Grandfather, Ben Pierce Killingsworth - Georgia Militia
    GreatX4 Grandfather, Daniel Killingsworth - Georgia Militia
     
  14. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    They usually aren't. Georgia suffered greatly at the hands of Sherman.
     
  15. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    I have to say that as of recent the "tinfoil" comment is offensive on ALL message boards. This is like the 5th or 6th time that I have seen it in a post this week, and to me seems like getting the last word without actually doing so.

    Anyone follow what I am saying or is it just me??
     
  16. RJS

    RJS Guest

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    Are you talking about the Battle Flag or the Confederate flag?
     
  17. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    Valid point! I await the rebuttal..
     
  18. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    it was said a couple ways. These United States of America, as well.
     
  19. JBD

    JBD Premium Member

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    No it is not just you, that comment is offensive, dismissive and inappropriate. It does speak directly to the understanding and subject knowledge of the poster however - so in that regard it is a useful statement :)
     
  20. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    hrm, my bad if i offended anyone. it wasn't meant to be offensive, dismissive or inappropriate.
     

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