Cipher Books In Lodge

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by Blake Bowden, Mar 2, 2013.

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Have you seen a cipher book used within the Lodge Room?

  1. Yes, during a meeting!

    12 vote(s)
    21.1%
  2. Yes, but only during practice.

    11 vote(s)
    19.3%
  3. No, my Grand Lodge doesn't permit one.

    34 vote(s)
    59.6%
  1. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Have you seen a cipher book used in Lodge? Votes are anonymous.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  2. Trip

    Trip Premium Member

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    I've heard if them but never seen one in person.
     
  3. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Talk about putting you on the spot!

    Here yeah one and all.

    Please, please never put this ole cajun boy in that situation in a Texas lodge room under our current unconstitutional statutes.
     
  4. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Ouch! Talk about putting you on the spot!

    Of course, there may be other jurisdictions where it would be legal.
     
  5. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    We pretend they don't exist while in the lodge building - our district instructor still reckons they are evil. And to be honest, I like the funny dynamic - because I don't think we should rely on them. The time spent learning the ritual mouth to ear is one of the special things about this stuff, and the differences between the CoW way of doin things and the book that shall not be named is how you can identify the fellas who have done it the old way. I like being able to pick those fellas out, personally, because chances are we're on the same sheet of music about how this whole enchilada ought to be eaten.
     
  6. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Huh? Don't understand. :confused:
     
  7. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    The results don't surprise me. Personally, I wish they were allowed during practice. It's hard to get things right when Brethren are bickering over how to open/close Lodge, much less confer a degree. I'd rather permit a code book during practice than to have piss poor work performed when it counts. This would be extremely helpful for rural Lodges where participation is slim to none or the DI is already stretched thin.
     
  8. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Translation: "under our current statutes that render the subject of this topic unconstitutional."

    I think. ;)

    Personally, I think it should be allowed for degree practice. After all, isn't that what most people go to the book for? I think yes, the book should be disallowed completely during instruction both by the instructor and instructee and forbade during open lodge. Beyond that, it should be able to be used. I guess the problem would be how to keep a leash on it, so every brother isn't toting one around. I actually think the stimga is good in some ways. Just need to find the sweet spot I guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  9. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Thanks crono782. That was my point although my verbage was lacking.

    Who knows how this code book issue will go in the future. Hopefully not much further than being able to purchase correct renditions from Grand Lodge who would, coincidentally, receive the revenue generated. That is as far as I would be willing to go. Not to excited about seeing noses buried in code books when working in lodge.
     
  10. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Hmmm yeah, that would be most disappointing to see everyone with their heads in a code book even during practice. Kinda takes the whole "brotherhood" out of practice and makes it feel sterile (IMO). It really is a tricky balance to find.
     
  11. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    I have seen them out during lodge meetings in other jurisdictions, but not in Texas. :)

    S&F,
    -Bro Vick
     
  12. Brent Heilman

    Brent Heilman Premium Member

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    I always have mine in my car. During practice nights I will get it out, but never in a tiled lodge (big no-no). During a practice it is inevitable that there will be some confusion over a word here and there and it settles the matter rather quickly. As an aid in instruction, I will only look at it before the instruction is to begin. By doing that I know I am getting it right and not trying to insert my own verbiage into the lesson.
     
  13. XcaliburDK

    XcaliburDK Registered User

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    As stated in the EA degree "from time immimorial my brother lessons have been passed from instrucive tongue to attentive ear" and I think it should stay that way and apparently so does the committee on works in The Grand Lodge of Texas.....otherwise we are not keeping to ancient operative masonic beliefs and teachings...and are not being in due form as a lodge....and our new masonic brrthren won't learn "True Masonry" if we keep trying to change things....this is my opinion though

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  14. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    I agree to some extents. My opinion, however, is that three words in that statement require particular emphasis: lessons, instructive, attentive.

    Lessons: I believe that, in being instructed in the EA, FC, and MM work, ciphers should NOT be used. You are learning the work. The particular brother instructing you will have his own interpretations and understandings of the work and your learning will be shaded by those interpretations. This is what forges the bond between the teacher and student. You take his views and galvanize your teachings with your own formulated understandings. After you have learned the work (and I do realize that, truly, learning never stops) a refresher in the base material is beyond the scope of the initial learnig.

    Instructive: The instructive tongue that relates the material to the student is just a conduit of the mind that is relating said material. It would seem that after a number of years, the instructiveness of the mind (and thus, the tongue) require a refresher in instructiveness so to speak.

    Attentive: The attentive ear should always strive to perfect and hone the knowledge being given to it. Beyond the initial work, a desire to perfect one's usages of it should develop and may require a rule by which to measure the correctness of the work.

    All that just to say, that I believe that in open lodge, it's just lame to crack a cipher book. During instruction, it really ruins the whole point of the word of mouth and rote learning practices. ^_^
     
  15. Star Mztyk

    Star Mztyk Registered User

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    I Am Recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas....my A Certificate hangs on the wall. Now Listen to me.. if you take your cannidate through his degrees ...you should already be sharing secrets with him and informing him that Bond that you are his Brother and he would have to commit murder or be involved in treason before you would tell anyone. I have had to hold my tongue....but the magic of this is that being a Brother is greater at times than being the Minister of Their Church. Masonry is a cabletoe of Spirit...that is hand to hand.
     
  16. texasmason791

    texasmason791 Registered User

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    Under the Grand Lodge of Texas you are allowed to have one but they are not allowed In the lodge building. They are a great memory aid. The book should not be used to teach from just to help if you get " stuck" in one area or another.


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  17. BEDickey

    BEDickey Premium Member

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    yes, and no...

    I see them in lodge all the time, but officers are not allowed to use them. We have one person, generally the sec'y as a "prompter", if you get stuck. And the Chaplain is allowed to use the monitor for reciting the charges and prayers, of they have yet to memorize them.
     
  18. RHS

    RHS Registered User

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    They aren't brought into my lodge


    RHS

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  19. Benjamin Baxter

    Benjamin Baxter Moderator Staff Member

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    I have not seen them in my lodge. For pratice purposes I believe they could be of value. I have seen many brethren need to learn the material right the first time, instead of practicing it wrong for a while and then finding out it was wrong and having to relearn it again. :confused:

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  20. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    That's the responsibility of the instructor. If we began allowing the books to be used at practice sessions, before long I see them showing up @ tiled meetings. IMHO, far better to use them only as permitted currently.
     

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