Compact Signing

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Blake Bowden, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    http://www.mwphglotx.org/compact.htm

    This whole compact is kinda silly. So let me get this straight, we recognize each other as legitimate Masonic entities, yet we're prohibited from meeting upon the level?

    No visitation
    No membership
    No dual membership

    Does it benefit Freemasonry to keep the divide alive and well?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  2. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Of course not.
     
  3. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    Peace and Harmony being the ...

    My question is how come I have never read or heard PH Masons want to merge? Has anyone ever asked PH if they would like to become one? Personally I don't think it has anything to do with racism. Maybe the teachings are different enough that some of the meanings could be lost if we were to merge. If I'm off on this, please correct me.
     
  4. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    I don't think merging is necessary. Simple recognition and visitation seems to work in 40 other states.
     
  5. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Well said Brother.
     
  6. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    40 other states? really? wtf.
     
  7. Raven

    Raven Registered User

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    I agree with you, Brother.

     
  8. Raven

    Raven Registered User

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    I have encountered numerous PH Masons in recognition, but have never heard anyone, PH or otherwise, express an interest in merging. I think that it is simply respect without racism.
     
  9. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    Sorry - 39 (we're the 40th with recogniition). Plus Kentucky is getting started. As far as I know, we're the only state with our arrangement.
     
  10. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    where you get that? that we're so far behind is kind of absurd.
     
  11. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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  12. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    I have heard from a VERY credible source says the original compact that was presented to our Fraternal Relations Committee had visitation but PHA was told to take it out or it would not pass.
     
  13. Heirophant

    Heirophant Registered User

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    I met a PH Mason once a few years back, and he said it quote on quote "It all started with Juneteenth". Whatever that means..
     
  14. Huw

    Huw Guest

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    Hi Heirophant.

    Is it that rare? Wow! PHAoTX isn't a tiny organisation, something like 10,000 members, so I'd have thought you'd bump into one another from time to time, even though TX is a big State (or should I say a big country, for those of you who take a more lone star view? :))

    Actually, aren't there any PH Brethren in this forum? I'd have thought a few would sign up, now that you're speaking to one another.

    T & F,

    Huw
     
  15. Huw

    Huw Guest

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    Hi Johnnie.

    I think you're probably off on that. Certainly so far as the ceremonies go, most of the PHA Brethren do pretty much the same as the State GL Brethren. Not absolutely identical, of course, but no more different than the differences you could find by visiting in other States. And certainly more similar to one another than you'd find if you visited non-US GLs - you might be shocked if you saw how I do the work here in England, but I doubt you'd be shocked by the proceedings if you were allowed to visit your PH neighbours.

    PHA has been going a long time, it has a substantial history and tradition of its own, just as the State GLs do. Naturally there are a lot of PH Brethren who take pride in their tradition and don't want to lose it, and I reckon that's an understandable and respectable reason for not wanting merger. I imagine that the question must have been asked in a few places, and I'm not surprised if the answer has been no. Perhaps there might be some mergers in the long term, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Nevertheless, I'm not so sure that racism has no relevance at all. I've occasionally seen a few PH Brethren say harsh things about whitey, same as some State GL Brethren have said harsh things the other way around. And I've noticed that one PHGL (one of the ones which is still unrecognised, not PHAoTX!) even makes some remarks on its official website which seem to be based on racial assumptions.

    T & F,

    Huw
     
  16. Gerald.Harris

    Gerald.Harris Premium Member Premium Member

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    Brother Miley, The reason that things are the way that they are, is because that is precisely what the PH Masons asked the Grand Lodge of Texas to do several years ago. They did not seek visitation rights . They simply asked for recognition. I believe that if enough of the members of the PHGL and the GLOT want this to happen then it will .

     
  17. Huw

    Huw Guest

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    Bro. Owls says that he "heard from a VERY credible source says the original compact that was presented to our Fraternal Relations Committee had visitation but PHA was told to take it out", whereas Bro. Gerald says instead that PHA "did not seek visitation rights". They can't both be right! But from where I'm sitting, I've no way to know which of them has the correct information.

    I have to agree with Bro. Gerald's other point (about visitation) that "if enough of the members of the PHGL and the GLOT want this to happen then it will". However, the key word is "enough". Naturally there are various procedural hurdles which might become relevant, so "enough" probably means that both leaderships must want it as well as both sets of members all at the same time. That might happen one day, but there evidently isn't the will for it right now.

    T & F,

    Huw
     
  18. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    I've always been suspicious of the story PHA didn't want visitation because it seemed to be the one single thing about Grand Lodge that absolutely everyone seemed to say the same thing verbatim on.

    I've even seen one brother switch from "they're not recognized", after I corrected him, to the usual verbatim.
     
  19. TexMass

    TexMass Registered User

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    They are just another jurisdiction. Some things are different some are the same but we are all Brothers.
     
  20. Huw

    Huw Guest

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    A question for you, Brethren.

    I realise that GLoTX and PHAoTX Brethren cannot visit one another within their own jurisdictions, *but* am I correct in believing that the one concrete result of this type of recognition is that, if a GLoTX member and a PHAoTX member are both visiting in a third jurisdiction which recognises both of them (such as here in UGLE), then they *can* now sit together in a third-party Lodge?

    T & F,

    Huw
     

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