Democracy vs Republic: Which are We?

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by Wingnut, Jan 16, 2009.

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Is the US a Democracy or a Republic?

  1. Democracy

    3 vote(s)
    3.5%
  2. Republic

    61 vote(s)
    71.8%
  3. a stepping stone to socialism

    21 vote(s)
    24.7%
  1. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Apparently, even our elected officials forget this.

    Republic vs. Democracy

    Rule by Law vs. Rule by Majority

    Just after the completion and signing of the Constitution, in reply to a woman's inquiry as to the type of government the Founders had created, Benjamin Franklin said, "A Republic, if you can keep it."
    Not only have we failed to keep it, most don't even know what it is.

    A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the Constitution). A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals while democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs (the public good).
    Lawmaking is a slow, deliberate process in our Constitutional Republic requiring approval from the three banches of government, the Supreme Court and individual jurors (jury-nullification). Lawmaking in our unlawful democracy occurs rapidly requiring approval from the whim of the majority as determined by polls and/or voter referendums. A good example of democracy in action is a lynch mob. A more recent example was the failure of the US Senate to uphold their oath "to do impartial justice" and remove bill clinton from office. Those Senators should be removed themselves, for failure to uphold their oath and for aiding and abetting a known criminal. If you would like to help remove them, E-mail me.

    Democracies always self-destruct when the non-productive majority realizes that it can vote itself handouts from the productive minority by electing the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury. To maintain their power, these candidates must adopt an ever-increasing tax and spend policy to satisfy the ever-increasing desires of the majority. As taxes increase, incentive to produce decreases, causing many of the once productive to drop out and join the non-productive. When there are no longer enough producers to fund the legitimate functions of government and the socialist programs, the democracy will collapse, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.

    Even though nearly every politician, teacher, journalist and citizen believes that our Founders created a democracy, it is absolutely not true. The Founders knew full well the differences between a Republic and a Democracy and they repeatedly and emphatically said that they had founded a republic.

    Article IV Section 4, of the Constitution "guarantees to every state in this union a Republican form of government".... Conversely, the word Democracy is not mentioned even once in the Constitution. Madison warned us of the dangers of democracies with these words,

    "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths...",
    "We may define a republic to be ... a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is essential to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion or a favored class of it; otherwise a handful of tyrannical nobles, exercising their oppressions by a delegation of their powers, might aspire to the rank of republicans and claim for their government the honorable title of republic." James Madison, Federalist No. 10, (1787)

    "A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men." Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

    Our military training manuals used to contain the correct definitions of Democracy and Republic. The following comes from Training Manual No. 2000-25 published by the War Department, November 30, 1928.

    DEMOCRACY:

    A government of the masses.
    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
    Results in mobocracy.
    Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights.
    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
    Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
    REPUBLIC:

    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.
    Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.
    The manuals containing these definitions were ordered destroyed without explanation about the same time that President Franklin D. Roosevelt made private ownership of our lawful money (US Minted Gold Coins) illegal. Shortly after the people turned in their $20 gold coins, the price was increased from $20 per ounce to $35 per ounce. Almost overnight F.D.R., the most popular president this century (elected 4 times) looted almost half of this nation's wealth, while convincing the people that it was for their own good. Many of F.D.R.'s policies were suggested by his right hand man, Harry Hopkins, who said,

    "Tax and Tax, Spend and Spend, Elect and Elect, because the people are too damn dumb to know the difference".
     
  2. RJS

    RJS Guest

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    I know what we are, its in the Pledge of Allegiance.
     
  3. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    We are headed towards socialism.
     
  4. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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  5. nick1368

    nick1368 Registered User

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    good post
     
  6. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    I voted by what it is supposed to be, not what it unfortunately has become. :-(
     
  7. gortex6

    gortex6 Guest

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    Liberty is what a sailor is granted before comming ashore; it is something temporary. We are losing our individual liberty by each passing day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2009
  8. ragged tiger

    ragged tiger Guest

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    Voting republic.
     
  9. gipper2005

    gipper2005 Guest

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    I voted for what we are currently; not what we are supposed to be.
     
  10. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    yea, that's a good point. it's a representative democracy (which, really, is an oligarchy... and it looks much like a monarchy right now with the president as king and the representatives and senators as nobles). look at the way the got their pitchforks and took back the AIG bonuses. that's a democracy for you. punishing people through legislation? seriously?

    i want to change my vote to: a stepping stone to socialism
     
  11. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    "A stepping stone to socialism".

    Similar words were spoken when social security came about. Same words were said for the medicaid/medicare programs. These programs have benefited millions. The problems lie in the administration of these and future programs.
     
  12. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    and yet we keep going to the same well hoping it will get better while tossing TRILLIONS of dollars down the rabbit hole. Isnt that the definition of stupid? Doing the same thing the same way and hoping for different results? (lol just noticed that HOPE is part of the equation imagine that)
     
  13. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    "Doing the same thing the same way and hoping for different results?"

    No one in the "leadership"(?) of this country is held accountable. If we had as much accountability as we do apathy in the US things might be different. The same people are reelected time after time. Might be our just desserts?
     
  14. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    Or the same people, different face, different party.
     
  15. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    We hold our leaders accountable every time we have an election.
     
  16. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    If you really drill down on the issue, its not 'leadership' its the voters fault. We elect the same people or their clones every election. Everyone says they want change but then they elect the incumbent. Many polls have shown that people dislike the job that the president is doing and that congress is doing. But in the same polls it shows they are happy with THEIR congressman, just not the other ones.

    We the people put the 546 azzhats in office that have screwed up the country, increased our deficits to unfathomable levels and allowed them to dictate to US what is a right, what needs to be fixed and how.

    As you said and as Ive posted many times before, health care needs some fixing. It doesn't need to be destroyed and redone so that less than 1% of the population can gain new free coverage.

    I personally dont trust the people that have given us medicare, medicaid, social security, the VA, Native American Reservation Health Care, the post office, amtrack to completely take over 1/6th of the Nations economy and get it right!
     
  17. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    Exactly. An election should be considered a term limit, whenever the person quits representing his constituents, his term should be up.
     
  18. ljlinson1206

    ljlinson1206 Premium Member Premium Member

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    This conversation can get "Very Deep" and I will only get a headache. Therefore i will refrain from venting on to you guys.
     
  19. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    and i believe each one of those things were stepping stones. these programs have also hurt millions.

    hah. this is almost funny.

    heck yea it can.
     
  20. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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