Don't Hate Me But

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Eric Edwards, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    What is more absurd
    the name of Lucifer to
    The intellectual Lucifer
    and more impious than to attribute
    the devil, that is, to personified evil,
    is the spirit of intelligence and love ;
    it is the Paraclete, it is the Holy Spirit, while the physical
    Lucifer is the great agent of universal magnetism.

    so LUCIFER IS THE HOLY SPIRIT...NO AND H*** NO HE IS NOT.


    WHAT is this? YOU HAVE 2 BE KIDDING ME!


    Was this guy a mason?

    [TABLE="width: 478"]
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    [TD]Éliphas Lévi[HR][/HR][/TD]
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    [TD="width: 200"][​IMG][TABLE="width: 200"]
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    [TD]The Secret Tradition in Freemasonry.[/TD]
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    [TD="width: 268"][TABLE]
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    February 11, 1810 - May 31, 1875[TABLE]
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    A prolific writer on Magical Freemasonry, he has been called, "the last of the Magi." Born, Alphonse-Louis Constant, and trained for the Roman Catholic priesthood, Lévi is best known for his Doctrine of Transcendental Magic (1855), Ritual of Transcendental Magic (1856) and History of Magic(1860), all written before his briefassociation with Freemasonry.
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    Initiated: 14 March, 1861
    Quit/dropped from rolls: August 21, 1861
    Lodge Rose du Parfait Silence
    Grand Orient of France, Paris.


    Is grand orient a recognized lodge?
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  2. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    Did you say it was Arlington #438 you were petitioning?
     
  3. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    I did...

    I still lack one reference anyways...
    AND 438 is $500 up front I believe so I may
    wait to turn in my petition.

    Please forgive me if you find my questions insulting.

    I really don't mean this in any way rude or etc...

    I am just trying to seek the truth and I many of
    my christian friends whom I have told I was joining
    have tried to talk me out of it.

    None successfully so far but there is a ton of info out
    there that can make one's head spin.

    I can't wait for the day I can wear a MM ring I just
    want to make sure there isn't something below the surface
    that God wouldn't approve of.

    You have to admit though...

    Pike, Hall, Levi and some others have some strange sayings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  4. calee

    calee Registered User

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    If all you want is to wear a ring, then you are petitioning for the wrong reason.
     
  5. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    I can go buy a ring and learn every handshake code word and ritual online.

    I want to wear it because I want to be a member. I want to be a better man.

    I want to help my community.

    I first and foremost wear the cross though inwardly.

    The ring being a outward symbol I would wear with pride

    once raised.
     
  6. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    I'll be direct. My gut feeling is that masonry is not for you. You are likely to be severely dissapointed in what you find behind the curtain, judging by your posts. Not because there will be conflicts with Christianity, but because there isn't going to be the magic you expect to find. We are simpler in many respects than a bunch of the hocus pocus stuff you've found already.

    You are likely to be uncomfortable with the obligations. You are likely to deal with ongoing arguments from your friends that cause you to be conflicted.

    Most of all I predict you will struggle with the memorization work. Not necessarily because of mental capability, but because I predict you will lose interest in the organization during that stage and not make Fellowcraft. It is quite a bit more time consuming than many petitioners realize.

    And I think you are likely to get yourself into uncomfortable situations, often, because you are a bit tone deaf about discretion. Your avatar is a good example of that, and so are several of your posts.

    I think you would be far happier, long term, in doing work within a Church.

    I mean no disrespect to you, and I'm often wrong - but this is my honest opinion.
     
  7. LukeD

    LukeD Registered User

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    Quote: I can go buy a ring and learn every handshake code word and ritual online.




    Lol, and I can take a picture of a jet cockpit and be a fighter pilot. I have coworkers who say the same thing. There is much more to it than reading stuff online. I struggled with some stuff you mentioned as well, but not everything is meant literal. If you're going to get into esoteric studies, start with the basics. Not every definition of today meant the same thing hundreds of years ago. The mind is like a parachute, it's best used when open.
     
  8. Spring TX MM

    Spring TX MM Premium Member

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    I must agree with brother Hatley on this. I didn't catch on earlier but now the impression I get is exactly as brother Hatley stated.

    Eric, the comment you made about buying a ring online and learning the things you stated wont make you a Mason. In fact, it does just the opposite. Just my opinion but I think what you seek will not be found because you have over analyzed the whole process. I normally tell over excited initiates that George Washington didn't have the internet and that he trusted in the good men taking him by the hand and showing him the way. Researching to the degree you have and your conflicts with the misinformation and out there only help reinforce my sentiments about what brother Hately stated. I'm not trying to be the negative pill here. Just stating from experience and based on your comments.

    Kyle
     
  9. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    The memorization would be a breeze for me. I can remember things I hear once or read once
    for years. I don't know how I just do. I can remember my girlfriends phone numbers from
    jr. high and high school.

    I remember whole chapters of books I read almost verbatim.

    I would hope your are simpler that I think. My avatar by the way was taken from
    the recent time magazine article on freemasons. I thought it looked cool.

    Thank you for your opinion. You could be right but I can promise this if I am in lodge I wouldn't
    bring up issues that could cause a stir.
     
  10. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    You are 100% correct just as sitting on a corner doesn't make you a stop sign.
    I was simply saying why would ANYONE want to join just for a ring?

    I was speaking with a friend last night and he said why would you join if you
    can't know everything to make a informed decision and anything secret can't be good.

    I said why would anyone join if you could know everything up front. lol.

    He told me he considered joining but decided against it because some story his
    friend told him about his grandfather's masonic lodge having a sacrificial table in it.
    :6:
    I told him him that was a hilarious misinformation just like David Icke and his alien
    cult crap.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  11. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    Be careful that you don't underestimate the memorization work. I'm saying this specifically because I have seen bright men, who were extremely fired up to be a mason run into trouble at that stage.

    I sat on my own petition for over a year before submitting it. So soul searching is by no means rare, nor am I saying research is necessarily bad.

    But the step you have to take, in my opinion, is prioritizing the personal relationships aspect. You were urged a while back to cultivate personal relationships at your lodge. That is where you are at, really. You need to put the books and websites aside and go get to know the men at Arlington lodge, personally. Pretty much all of them. Shake hands. Break bread. Sit on your hands as far as the website searches and posts go, for a while.

    It is this patience and trust that is absolutely essential to making your way forward, it isn't optional.
     
  12. Michael Hatley

    Michael Hatley Premium Member

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    And brass tacks, you will find not find freemasons that worship the devil. Period.
     
  13. Frater Cliff Porter

    Frater Cliff Porter Premium Member

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    Alphonse Louis Constant was a Freemason. Initiated: 14 March, 1861 and was either suspended for non-payment or dropped from the roles on August 21, 1861 in Lodge Rose du Parfait Silence under the Grand Orient of France. He was a wildly successful occultist and interesting dude. I don't particular care for him, but he radically changed the Western magical tradition.

    Albert Pike was a phenomenal Freemason. Pike wrote weird things like
    You continue your search for religious agreement of Freemasonry and the dogma of the Craft. You will find neither beyond men bound to one another by oath and respect.
     
  14. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    That Albert Pike quote is beautiful.
     
  15. mattcaler

    mattcaler Registered User

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    I have to say that I agree with Brother Hatley on all his posts that he has made in this thread. If you are genuine in your search then get off the internet and go have dinner with the men at Arlington Lodge every chance you get. After spending a few months getting to know them, if they seem like a bunch of crooked, deceiving devil worshipers that are trying to lure you in to their cult then your friends at church could be right and you probably don't want anything to do with taking over the world via a Pinky and the Brain New World Order plot...do I sound absurd enough yet???

    Seriously though...you will know the character of the fraternity by the character of those men you eat dinner with. Gage it by those relationships, not what you read on the internet or what your friend at church's cousin's uncle said.
     
  16. Colby K

    Colby K Premium Member

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    I could've said it better. The only site I looked at before I petitioned / while working on my degrees was www.askafreemason.org. nothing was spoiled for me and I had no false information. The brothers at my lodge gave me everything I needed and never led me astray.
     
  17. Bro_Vick

    Bro_Vick Moderator Premium Member

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    The only other thing I would offer that others here haven't stated that your constant emphasis on conflict of the philosophies of Freemasonry and your religious views means it will over time become manifest destiny. If you honestly believe that there is a core conflict or are constantly looking for devil worshipers, Wicca occultists, or some other evil force, you are going to alienate your potential brothers and cause nothing more than discord as others here have stated.

    You need to recognize your attraction to the Craft, and if you believe that joining the Craft will damn your soul, then you need to not simply join. Freemasonry is not compulsory by any means, and ones character is not directly reflected if they choose not to become a brother or accepted as such.

    Sometimes we run into this with military recruits, they have a great interest in the military, but have outside factors that causes internal conflict in joining (parents, religion, criminal past, etc). In the end they like the concept of "playing footsie" with the idea of joining the military (the attention from recruiters, friends), but won't take the final steps to finalize their commitment. Sucking down the time of the recruiters and their staff.

    Please seriously think about these things, don't come here and other places to "poke the bear", to gauge the response of whether you want to be a Freemason or not. You have read far more than you need to have to understand if Freemasonry is right for you, and have repeatedly come here asking questions that are answered again and again. I think you have all the information you need to understand if the Craft is the right choice for you, I hope that you can be honest with yourself and God to know whether this is the right choice.

    I wish you luck in all that you do, and appreciate your contemplative nature.

    S&F,
    -Bro Vick
     
  18. Eric Edwards

    Eric Edwards Registered User

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    thank you for the sound advice
     
  19. Tx4ever

    Tx4ever Registered User

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    My Father was a Texas mason and this was all i needed to know to want in.
     
  20. mattcaler

    mattcaler Registered User

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    <------------ Likes this guy :thumbup:
     

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