from irregular to regular

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Harmon, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. Harmon

    Harmon Registered User

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    if a ldoge or Grand lodge is considered irregular what steps does it have to adhere to before it's considered regular?

    Harmon Weston
     
  2. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    i don't believe it can really be done. the charter has to be regular... aka, it has to trace it's lineage back to a regular lodge. if the lodge or GL didn't get it's charter from a regular lodge (regular with say GLoTx), i don't know that anything can be done.

    bill lins on these forums can give better information.
     
  3. Ashton Lawson

    Ashton Lawson Premium Member

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    The only way, in theory, that I can see it being done would look like this:
    1. All members of the irregular Lodge/Grand Lodge demit their membership and renounce their allegiance to it.
    2. All demitted members petition a Regular Lodge for the degrees of Masonry.
    3. All that are accepted in a Regular Lodge complete all 3 degrees.
    4. All that complete all 3 degrees request a charter from the Regular Grand Lodge in their Jurisdiction.
    5. Upon approval of their charter, their Officers are installed and can form a Regular Lodge.

    This is pure theory, but if properly organized, I don't see why it wouldn't be a legitimate method of organization. Of course, an irregular Grand Lodge would lose all status and could only reform as a Regular Lodge under the Jurisdiction of the Regular Grand Lodge, if their charter were granted.

    I'm sure there are other ways, but I think this would be the only way in Texas.
     
  4. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Correct the members would have to be 'healed' then they could go through the normal process for creating a new lodge as outlined in GL Law.
     
  5. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    It depends what makes them "irregular". (A member of the Philalethes perhaps?) I see some here have mentioned the term within their "jurisdiction"; there are some lodges in the US (as mentioned here before, Huw where are you?) that do not fall under the prevailing local grand lodges "jurisdiction". (A little fly in the ointment for the sake of discussion).
     
  6. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    There are two types of "regularity"- origin & practice. A Lodge that is not regular in origin can only correct itself through the "healing" process as described above. A Lodge that is irregular in practice (such as admitting atheists, women, etc.) can become regular by ceasing their irregular practices .
     
  7. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    A lodge that has a "pedigree charter" that some "mainstream" U.S. lodges do not recognise and are not considered "regular" need NO healing. Their origin and practice are recognised world wide, and I'm not splitting hairs, also I'm not talking about any grand orient lodges.
     
  8. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Could you please go into more detail, with specifics? I'm not familiar with "pedigree charters".
     
  9. Ashton Lawson

    Ashton Lawson Premium Member

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    I'm guessing he's referring to a time immemorial lodge such as Mother Kilwinning 0 in Europe.
     
  10. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    Masonic pedigree would be defined as the source of a lodge’s charter and in turn that sources charters’ origination. Most “regular” and “recognised” grand lodges can trace their linage back to the UGLE. This has been the universal “benchmark”. For reference a look at Chris Hodapp’s “Freemasonry for Dummies” and find the words Masonic pedigree could prove to be interesting.

    My other issue is with this myth of Masonic exclusive territorial jurisdiction. This combined with Masonic pedigree were used as reasons for refusal of Prince Hall Masons.

    Here is an example of “Masonic education”:

    Explain Prince Hall Masonry. Point out that black and Prince Hall Masons are not necessarily irregular, that irregular black and Prince Hall Masons are not irregular because of race, that a black Mason is not necessarily a Prince Hall Mason, and that many black Masons belong to lodges chartered by so-called “white” grand lodges. Irregularity stems from a Grand Lodge’s pedigree, not the racial makeup of its lodges, and is, in any case, always judged subjectively.

    Can anyone see anything wrong with this?

    How do you define irregular?
     
  11. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    It appears that you are making a circular argument. If a "mainstream" GL does not recognize a particular GL as "regular" either in origin or practice, it doesn't matter what other GL's do- in THAT jurisdiction, "healing" is required. Although you consider "exclusive territorial jurisdiction" a myth, the fact is that the concept is real & exists almost everywhere in the United States. Some GL's, including Texas, have agreed to share jurisdiction with a select number of other GL's, such as (in the case of Texas) Prince Hall Affiliated. Other GL's are still considered irregular & clandestine.
     
  12. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    Au contraire; let’s look closer shall we? PHA (as used in my example) needs no healing. Prince Hall lodge was granted a charter through the UGLE, and through that same linage the “mainstream” U.S. lodges received their charters. Mainstream lodges failure to recognise this fact was the reason for the existence of PHA lodges within “mainstream” lodges jurisdictions. (Your ETJ if you will).

    Are you going to tell me “healing” is required? There is no need for healing, there only needs to be recognition and amity. They are “regular” both in origin and practice. (Or is it a case of “me first)? That’ll fly in this case.

    The fact is, that it is the “mainstream” lodges who need healing; to remediate the stigma caused by their own actions. ETJ is exclusive to the U.S., I wonder why? Could it be that it was (and is) used as a tool? Overseas it is a source of ridicule, “you children cannot play nice in the same sandbox”. We wonder why with these type of covert tactics we are a dying institution… If we need an “exclusive patent” for our “territory” to protect us from competition, we need to get out of this business.

    If we "share", it's not exclusive territory then is it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
  13. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    You are trying to be philosophical while I am being realistic. Whether either of us like it or not (& I don't), the fact is that if a PHA member wishes to be able to sit in a "mainstream" Lodge, currently "healing" IS required. Your statement that it is not is disingenuous & misleading to our less-informed Brethren.
     
  14. JEbeling

    JEbeling Guest

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    I don't care what color the PH mason's are.. ! This is not about color.. ! In a some cases some PH lodges do NOT reconize other PH lodges.. ! it is not one unified group of masons.. !

    This is about our Grand Lodge getting involved with PH masons.. ! now which PH Grand Lodge in Texas do we join.. ! my understanding that there are three PH Grand Masters in Texas..?
     
  15. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    So far, the only PH Grand Lodge that is recognized by GLoT is "Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodge" in Fort Worth.
     
  16. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    You may call it what you will. I’m talking about standard Masonic protocol. Once again we are twisting in the wind, you are assuming a PHA member wants to sit in your “mainstream†lodge, while I’m addressing the issue of recognition and the Masonic benchmark that everyone is supposed to be using. It’s becoming clear that there will be no playing in the sand box and it also becomes apparent that they will never be on the level until they submit to some Byzantine exercise. I see how we have become irrelevant with our reluctance to change to the standard Masonic protocol that is universal. The day may soon come when “mainstream†lodges that refuse to abide by the Masonic standard for recognition will themselves be denied recognition. Maybe that will be what it takes, but there will be a price to be paid. That price will be paid socially and masonically with great detriment to the craft (maybe the fatal blow). Could it be this is why the are no “mainstream†Masonic lodges on military bases? Could it be that every time a federal judge is queried about their background that they demit or disavow their Masonic affiliations? And we wonder where are all those Masonic leaders in public offices. We can argue until the end of time about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but the devil is in these details.


    Let’s see how disingenuous this really is, shall we?

    Occam's razor moment:

    Here is some food for thought: I have a friend who is a PHA Mason and travels around the world with me and has never been denied recognition or admittance to any lodge in the counties and towns where were visiting; but I could not/cannot sit in lodge with him or teat him like as a brother, why? If we cut out all of the psychobabble we have our answer now don’t we? He never had to be “Benny Hinnedâ€!

    As this appears to be a “hot button†issue here, I will end my part of this dialogue and apologise to all those individuals whom I’ve upset. Some times it’s best to leave a sleeping dog lie, but I have a propensity for using the proverbial hornets nest as a piñata. My apologies…

    End of discussion. (on my part).
     
  17. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Well this convinces me. Who brought up race anyway? It was a discussion on regular and irregular. Will you please let the race thing go..?
     

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