Homosexuals

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by cwmaynord87, Nov 17, 2013.

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  1. cwmaynord87

    cwmaynord87 Registered User

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    After listening to various masons discuss the topic, I will ask the community at large. Can a free mason be a practicing open homosexual?


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  2. Plustax

    Plustax Registered User

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    Texas is a conservative state & although certain things are recognized (ie... wiccans, homosexuality, etc) doesn't necessarily mean they're accepted and by recognized I mean that it is known that it exists. Even further yet, doesn't mean they (recognized or viewed cultures or lifestyles) are accepted in local lodges where those local lodges may be even more conservative than others. I don't believe that can or will ever be changed. It is what t is. Too many different beliefs, too many cultures. It is what it is. Imagine a homosexual couple coming in to a small town local church. Right or wrong, bible this or that, God this or that, that couple probably would not be accepted very well by them. I mentioned a small town church, but that could be any type organization in a small town or really any size town depending on views in that area of this conservative state (& other states). Again, it is what it is. People can not be forced to change if they don't choose to change. I've heard many times that by putting more & more homsexual couples on T.V. in reality shows, TV evening shows, in many cases has a more negative general "accepance" of that lifestyle because many "conservatives" believe it as being "forced" to accept it. As we all know people in general don't like being forced in to anything especially how to believe in something. Right or wrong... it is what it is.
     
  3. John Jennings

    John Jennings Registered User

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    I am glad there were people throughout history who didn't simply say, "It is, what it is," or, "You can't force your beliefs on someone else." My life would be pretty horrible if groups of people didn't get together and decide to challenge mainstream thinking.

    As far as homosexual men being "accepted" into freemasonry, I don't believe there is a section on the petition that asks for sexual orientation. To make that a deciding factor just seems to go against what the organization stands for. As I am not a mason yet, I could be wrong.

    Also, with the amount of anti-freemasonry thinking worldwide, I would think this would be one of the last organizations that would exclude potential members based on personal baises. It just seems a bit hypocritical in my opinion.

    But with any system, masonry or not, change is initially rejected. But, with time and effort the thinking of old will eventually be replace with the thinking of a newer generation.

    I would say to anyone reading who may be homosexual, don't let that stop you. From what I have been told, the lessons that are learned will be invaluable.

    Just my two cents...spend it wisely.

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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  4. cwmaynord87

    cwmaynord87 Registered User

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    Both are very good answers. John it seems that your answer is keeping with the spirit of Freemasonry and Plusta, addresses the reality of the situation. Perhaps some day soon they won't be different things.

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  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    There are gay Freemasons out there in the world, so obviously the answer is yes.
     
  6. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    Here in England, homosexual men could not join Lodges because sodomy was an illegal act and therefore so was homosexuality. However in 1967 the Sexual Offences Act decriminalised sodomy when it took place in private between two consenting men who were aged over 21 and since that time there has been no bar.

    I personally know several openly gay Masons who are excellent Masons and to be honest their private sexual activities are no more my business than mine are theirs.
     
  7. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    You are not wrong, my friend. Not that there are not Masons who will forever believe that it is not just their right, but their obligation to arbitrarily apply some of their chosen VoSL's rules to everyone, but such judgement is far beyond what any investigating committee or Mason at the ballot box is ever charged with.
    And you are right that fear and ignorance, and the hatred and bigotry born of them, will fade with time, but in some places, that will be a very long time.
     
  8. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    One the one hand - Masonry teaches tolerance. Tolerance is being at peace with something not accepting it. Masonry has historically led the way on issues of freedom and tolerance.

    On the other hand - Masonry teaches morality. But it does not teach who's morality as in what culture's local specific morality. Masonry has historically been very slow to change on issues of morality.

    That there are homosexual Masons who do not advertise the fact does not address the word "open" the OP's question. And I haven't written how I stand on the topic here either. To pass the ballot every member present must vote yes. I can't say it that will happen in any one lodge. I would have to know the regulars for a while to even be able to guess.
     
  9. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    So, that raises the question... are there any gay Lodges?


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  10. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Brother Doug, I know gay Masons who are open about their sexuality, so, yes, the OP's question was answered.
     
  11. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Not that I've ever heard of, no.
     
  12. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The most general question would be - Are there any X lodges? The answer is usually no. The tradition of lodges having specialty membership died everywhere I've heard of multiple decades ago. Lodges of a specific profession, specific religion, specific national origin have all pretty much faded into memory. If there ever were lodges that specialized in gay guys they would have long since come to resemble the local demographics decades ago.
     
  13. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Why would there be? As has been mentioned over and over again, a man's sexuality has nothing to do with Masonry. Some men are open, some not. It's their business, and their business alone. Some men like to be dominated by their women, will they have their own lodges? Let's be realistic here.

    Most gay Masons will never be open about it. You probably know one or two already. I would hazard to guess that there are gays who have 25-year pins, perhaps 50-year, that will never let their lodge know the truth.
     
  14. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    What about Prince Hall Lodges, which are comprised of a certain demographic and have remained separate even despite more open times? Why not merge the two in this day and age?


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  15. masonicdove

    masonicdove Registered User

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    Nfasson,

    As a newly raised Prince Hall MM I am young but even through my initiation, passing, and even petitioning I heard the pro's and con's of merging. Consider we as Prince Hall Affiliated Masons have such a deep rich history to walk away to merge we would loose some that history. So to some degree, this is just my opinion, it a little deeper then "just merge." There are, let's say, a cadre of issues that would have to be dealt with.
     
  16. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    I guess that makes sense... are there any shared events that happen between the Lodges and PH Lodges?






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  17. masonicdove

    masonicdove Registered User

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    In some states there exist recognition between the two. In others recognition and visitation. While in a few there is no recognition. So it depends on the state.


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  18. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    In most states yes with the amount varying widely. Washington even has both Gr Sec offices sharing office space. Jurisdictions where recognition has been in place for many years have both grand lines attending each others' annual communication plus common visitation by the brethren. In Texas where there is recognition without visitation there is at least one group that meets informally over meals.
     
  19. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    In NM, the GMs attend each others GL Communications and Installations, and have for years. The first Grand Communication I attended I was fortunate enough to sit next to the PH Grand Master during much of the meeting. Quite an honour, considering I'd been a Mason less than a year.
     
  20. cemab4y

    cemab4y Premium Member

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