Irregular lodge?

[Triclocarbon]

There is a lodge practicing in Dallas.
The name of the lodge is Jeremiah grand lodge AF&AM. The GM is T. Hadnot. I would like to find out the legitimacy of this lodge; if any.
The lodge is of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite masons. So claims. How can I find out if this is a legitimate lodge? Can a lodge claim to practice masonry but not be real? If someone becomes a mason there are they really a mason?

 

[Triclocarbon]

Another question; Who do we report such lodges to?

 

[robert leachman]

My first step would be going to the GLoT and/or the MWPHGLoT web pages and see if I could find the lodge listed on the "lodge locator" pages.

 

[bupton52]

There is a lodge practicing in Dallas.
The name of the lodge is Jeremiah grand lodge AF&AM. The GM is T. Hadnot. I would like to find out the legitimacy of this lodge; if any.
The lodge is of Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite masons. So claims. How can I find out if this is a legitimate lodge? Can a lodge claim to practice masonry but not be real? If someone becomes a mason there are they really a mason?

If there is a Grand Lodge operating in Texas that is not the GLoTX or the MWPHGLoTX, then it is not a regular or recognized Grand Lodge. You could always forward the info to Bro. Ed King at Anti-Masonry: Points of View so that he can add that GL to the list located at More Phonies

Hope that helps.

 

[martin]

And wut make u think they r not regular? What r they doing?

 

[Triclocarbon]

It is not on the locator. Is there a law. Like copyright infringement or something that prevents such things. the lodge operates under strict guidelines the same guidelines I've read about that make a lodge legit-emit, but of course with it not being on the GLOT locator. Well enough said. Can a lodge practice masonry, but not be accepted among all brothers? If someone becomes a mason there are they really a mason?

 

[Triclocarbon]

@martin, the fact that it is not listed on the GLOT. It has multiple members, and in Dallas they are prominent men, some police chefs, police officers, teachers, managers of businesses. No crazy promises, no crazy funds. seemingly good practices. they do charity at scottish rite hospital. They are in a parade in dallas every year...

 

[bupton52]

@martin, the fact that it is not listed on the GLOT. It has multiple members, and in Dallas they are prominent men, some police chefs, police officers, teachers, managers of businesses. No crazy promises, no crazy funds. seemingly good practices. they do charity at scottish rite hospital. They are in a parade in dallas every year...

None of those activities actually make a man a mason. Unfortunately, many men, regardless of social status, are duped into joining these organizations. No amount of charity work can make a man a legitimate mason.

 

[Triclocarbon]

I know that; I was speaking on terms of character of the lodge. That there is no reason to believe it is not proper other then the lack of it being listed. But I understand now that if not listed it is not real? well I would like clarity but I guess i'm not going to get it. I'm not a real brother. Godbless you all.

 

[bupton52]

I know that; I was speaking on terms of character of the lodge. That there is no reason to believe it is not proper other then the lack of it being listed. But I understand now that if not listed it is not real? well I would like clarity but I guess i'm not going to get it. I'm not a real brother. Godbless you all.

I would hope that I delivered that message in the most friendly way possible. If it did not come out that way, I apologize. If you ever have a question about a lodge in Texas, contact either of the two GLs I mentioned earlier and I'm sure either one would be glad to assist you. God bless you as well.

 

[tomasball]

In the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, we decide whether to recognize a Grand Lodge on the basis of three criterion: regularity of origin, regularity of practice, and conformity to the principle of jurisdictional exclusivity. As to origin, a Grand Lodge (to be recognized byt he GLoT) must show that it is directly descended from either the United Grand Lodge of England (or its two predecessors), the Grand Lodge of Scotland, or the Grand Lodge of Ireland. Regularity of practice can take a lot of twists and turns, but the most common reason for rejection is that a Grand Lodge does not require a belief in Divinity, or a Grand Lodge involves itself in partisan politics. The third point, simply put, is that in the United States, we only recognize one Grand Lodge in each state, unless one Grand Lodge that we already recognize formally agrees to share jurisdiction with another.

Now, as to the "Jeremiah Grand Lodge", if that body believes it meets the criteria I have described, they can formally request recognition by the GLoT. Since they have not, the Grand Lodge of Texas does not consider them a legitimate masonic body. The only consequence of that is that a member of the Jeremiah Grand Lodge can't attend meetings of any lodge of the GLoT (or, I suppose, any other masonic body in the world). They can't join a Lodge in the GLoT, or expect any member of a lodge in the GLoT to afford them the considerations required by a mason's obligation.

 

[towerbuilder7]

I will echo the statement of my District Brother Upton by telling you that there are only two Grand Lodges recognized in the State of Texas by the United Grand Lodge of England: The Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM, and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas, F&AM......any other "Grand Lodge" may even be considered "regular" by its practices, but it is UNRECOGNIZED by Masonic standards.

The character of the Men may be very good, they may have camaraderie, and they may even do some very good things in the community. If that is all you seek, then I would suggest you contact those gentlemen. If you seek each of these things, along with having Fraternal Recognition worldwide, and having the opportunity to visit and fellowship with Brother Masons in other States and countries, then you should consider either the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM subordinate Lodges, or any of the Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Lodges in your area. For more questions, or more information, send me a Private Message..................Bro. Jones

 

[BryanMaloney]

As has been mentioned, there are two, and only two regular Grand Lodges within Texas. There are the "Grand Lodge of Texas" and the "Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas". That's it.

 

[JTM]

It is not on the locator. Is there a law. Like copyright infringement or something that prevents such things. the lodge operates under strict guidelines the same guidelines I've read about that make a lodge legit-emit, but of course with it not being on the GLOT locator. Well enough said. Can a lodge practice masonry, but not be accepted among all brothers? If someone becomes a mason there are they really a mason?

there is no copyright for masonry like there is for the majority of greek college fraternities. any person is welcome to publish anything they feel is accurate in regards to freemasonry, according to the law. and really, anything that can have been said has already been said.

now, just for my curiosity, is this lodge that you speak of something that you have personal experience with or just something that you've seen from the outside?

 

[Triclocarbon]

@JTM, it is indeed personal experience. @Tomasball, I don't believe any member there will be requesting recognition. I don't know what to think of them, I came in when I was 18, my father being a shriner of the lodge. It hurts my heart to know I'm not accepted as a brother. I've been prudent and determined in my bettering and study; even in ritual. It came at a huge shock in my studing of masonic history, when I stumbled upon the fact my lodge was not recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas. I have mingled with brothers of all sorts and they never found a single flaw in me or my lodge as mentioned(yet they could be in trouble just for speaking to me). This was just in my travels; meeting brothers in my day as I went. Accepting even giving aid and having been aided by brothers. It is riveting to think I have to go through a investigative process again to be called a true brother and can be determined unfit or for what ever reason rejected. I've been living my life as one. With emblems displayed for a time; I took pride and somewhat still do, in this brotherhood that I thought I was apart. @towerbuilder, I have no need to be a mason there; the worldwide acceptance is the biggest saling point of this, to practice and be known for that because in all brothers it is in likeness, but this is not. I was duped; I will apply to the GLoT and I hope to be accepted, i don't mind taking the steps again the three the five or the seven. It is jus difficult to swallow, but I mean not to place my problems on you all. Thanks for the information, advice, and words. How it can be that a lodge practices without oversight is the clarity I was seeking, but it is not the GLoT's fault either that this lodge practices without. I can blame no one but Jeremiah Grand lodge and the GM there.

 

[Triclocarbon]

There are many proud masons there; I have no idea if any of them know that the lodge is not accepted. there are even men from other lodges that pick up practice there from older times and other lodges. I can't even begin to express how there is just no way of knowing; not even I would know if not for the internet. They have banquets at schools, and foundraisers in the community. They have a real show going. Not to mention what they practice is top notch; very strict about it. i can't express the betterment I experienced; having gone to college and discontinuing my studies because of my families' growth(two kids now). I've seen much of the world through the eyes of a mason. Now finding I was duped, and the world does not view me likewise. Well, Godbless you all. Keep up the good work.

 

[Triclocarbon]

What should I do with this locked brief case of things. Nothing written but geez; study material, including a duncan's ritual. My apron, gloves and the other little things of masonic affiliation. I know that I can be rejected for having had something to do with a clandestine or irregular lodge. even when I was being questioned coming into Jeremiah grand lodge such questions or, "have you been affiliated with...." arose in which I was under the impression a negative response was the only acceptable response. Can I have hope that I can be a True 'accepted' mason? Or should I go about my day and simply tip my hat in wanting?

 

[Bill Lins]

It breaks my heart to hear what has happened to you. While I am not denigrating the men of your "Lodge" and I have no doubt that they take their faith & practices seriously, the fact remains that anyone can buy books & regalia and set themselves up as a "Masonic Lodge" or "Grand Lodge". It has happened often in the past and probably will continue in the future. What happened to you could just as easily have happened to any of us- none of us came into this Fraternity knowing what we know now, so don't blame yourself. Neither do you need to apologize for bringing your situation to our attention- we're here to help in any way we can.

In answer to your main question- yes, you CAN become a Brother in either GLoT or PHA. You just need to be honest on your petition about your previous affiliation and renounce any further involvement with your former Lodge. PHA may have further requirements to be "healed" of which I'm unaware but if you petition a GLoT Lodge, your worthiness will be decided by the Brethren of that Lodge. May the GAOTU be with you & guide you.

 

[towerbuilder7]

Brother Triclocarbon, you and I have a LOT in common. I went through the EXACT same experience when I first joined Masonry. I joined Mt Sinai Grand Lodge, AF&AM, here in Houston, backin August of 2007. It is a Grand Lodge full of proud Brothers, 66 years of History here in Houston, and good Brothers from all walks of life. And, I experienced the same things as you----meeting different Brothers, having the pride in what I had accomplished, studying as much as I could, and enjoying the Brotherhood and camaraderie of the Brethren in my Lodge.


My particular issue came when I expressed an interest in researching the LINEAGE TO THE UGLE AND FRATERNAL RECOGNITION of my "Grand Lodge". I researched this issue for TWO YEARS, before I made the decision to leave, after I was unable to find the proper lineage of recognition documented anywhere. Leaving was one of the hardest things I have done as a grown man, because I really do LOVE these Brothers. I don't blame them for anything; I don't even think the majority of them even realize that they are not RECOGNIZED among the two Grand Bodies here in Texas. In most predominantly Black AF&AM "Grand Lodges", the Brotherhood as a whole thinks they are, because every member has explained to them that they are JUST AS LEGITIMATE as the PHA Brothers. I made the decision to be my own Man, and petition a Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Lodge, because I had a very good friend of mine who was a member, and also, my research indicated that THIS was a Grand Body of Masonry in Texas that WAS RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED GRAND LODGE OF ENGLAND.

I discovered that Prince Hall Affiliated Grand Lodges in each State had a proud History and Legacy in AMERICAN HISTORY, tracing back to March 6, 1775, which was the date that Bro. Prince Hall himself was initiated. I DO MISS the Brothers in my old Lodge dearly, however, I don't regret leaving. I get the Fraternal Recognition that I've always desired now, from PHA Brothers and Mainstream Brothers alike. There are more Prince Hall Affiliated Brothers that have walked in your shoes than you know, many of whom are on this very Forum.......you have NO reason to hang your head, young Brother. YOU didn't do anything wrong. All you did was exactly what ALL of us did----you wanted to become a MASON.


As the Brethren above have stated, you have two options to join a RECOGNIZED Grand Body of Masonry here in Texas. You can look up the Prince Hall Affiiated, F&AM (PHA) Lodges in your area, as well as the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM Lodges. It isn't our duty to sway you either way----YOU take the initiative to seek out Brothers from each Lodge, and YOU select and petition for membership at the Lodge that is the best fit FOR YOU. I did the same, a little over two years ago, and was "healed" into a PHA Lodge on August 18, 2010.

Please maintain your membership on this Forum, and keep us posted on your progress, whichever way you go. If you have any further questions about my experience in the AF&AM "Grand Lodge" that I left, send me a Private Message, or an email, (towerbuilder7@gmail.com) and I can offer as much LIGHT as you need to help you progress toward further LIGHT in Masonry in one of our Grand Bodies, if that is what you seek.

As far as the question of what to do with your memorabilia..........I kept my old membership certificate with a picture of the Brothers from my Old Lodge; the memories I hold are dear to me; the only thing I had to dispense with is the FRATERNAL AFFILIATION......The "healing" process isn't complicated at all. It's a series of steps that can be easily explained to you if you have questions for me off-line. I did it, and I'm very proud of my new affiliation, as well as the relationships I've developed with Brothers NATIONWIDE on THIS Forum. The books?! Toss them.....if you're coming to either a Prince Hall GLoTx, F&AM or Mainstream, GLoTx AF&AM affiliated Lodge, WE WILL GIVE YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED. HOLD YOU HEAD HIGH, BROTHER...............SMIB

BRO. VINCENT C. JONES, SR., LODGE CHAPLAIN, BAYOU CITY LODGE #228
PRINCE HALL AFFILIATION, FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONRY, HOUSTON, TEXAS
MOST WORSHIPFUL PRINCE HALL GRAND LODGE OF TEXAS

 

[bupton52]

@JTM, it is indeed personal experience. @Tomasball, I don't believe any member there will be requesting recognition. I don't know what to think of them, I came in when I was 18, my father being a shriner of the lodge. It hurts my heart to know I'm not accepted as a brother. I've been prudent and determined in my bettering and study; even in ritual. It came at a huge shock in my studing of masonic history, when I stumbled upon the fact my lodge was not recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas. I have mingled with brothers of all sorts and they never found a single flaw in me or my lodge as mentioned(yet they could be in trouble just for speaking to me). This was just in my travels; meeting brothers in my day as I went. Accepting even giving aid and having been aided by brothers. It is riveting to think I have to go through a investigative process again to be called a true brother and can be determined unfit or for what ever reason rejected. I've been living my life as one. With emblems displayed for a time; I took pride and somewhat still do, in this brotherhood that I thought I was apart. @towerbuilder, I have no need to be a mason there; the worldwide acceptance is the biggest saling point of this, to practice and be known for that because in all brothers it is in likeness, but this is not. I was duped; I will apply to the GLoT and I hope to be accepted, i don't mind taking the steps again the three the five or the seven. It is jus difficult to swallow, but I mean not to place my problems on you all. Thanks for the information, advice, and words. How it can be that a lodge practices without oversight is the clarity I was seeking, but it is not the GLoT's fault either that this lodge practices without. I can blame no one but Jeremiah Grand lodge and the GM there.

.

I wish you the best in your future endeavors and I hope everything works out. I have some additional information for if you would send me a PM. Also, where exactly is that GL located and who is the Grand Master?