Looking For Some Opinions On A Situation

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by KFerguson84, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. KFerguson84

    KFerguson84 Premium Member

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    Hello Brothers,

    I ran into a situation recently that has troubled me very much and I just wanted to get some other opinions or see if anyone else has had a similar experience.

    Before I became a Mason, I had joined the Knights of Columbus (I am a practicing Catholic). This was not so much for me, but for my soon to be father-in-law since he was a member. I have nothing against the Knights, but I did not intend to participate fully as an officer or anything. My desire was to simply be a card carrying member to have a bond with my father-in-law.

    A few months after being initiated into the Knights, I became a Mason. Masonry was in my family and was something that I had always loved and wanted to be a part of. I saw no qualms with this since it did not say anywhere in my Knights of Columbus initiation that I couldn't join other organizations. Now, just to clarify, I love Freemasonry. I would have left the Knights in a second to become a Mason if Masonry had such a requirement, but obviously they do not.

    Anyways, a few months after becoming a Mason, I get an email from the local KofC Council asking me if I was a Mason and if I was I would have to terminate my membership in the Knights since the two organizations were "mutually exclusive". There was nothing in Freemasonry that prevented me from being a KofC (especially since I wasn't very active) and there was nothing that prevented me from being a Catholic man. If anything, Freemasonry encourages me to practice my faith.

    I guess what I am looking or here is has anyone else on here been a victim of discrimination simply because you are a Freemason? How did you handle it? I appreciate any responses that anyone might like to give.

    Kyle Ferguson
    Kingsbury Lodge #466
    Free & Accepted Masons of Pennsylvania
    Dunmore, PA 18512
     
  2. Ordsman

    Ordsman Registered User

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    I have a friend who was in two lodges and had to resign from one to join KofC, I guess they only knew about the one lodge. I knew that to join one must leave a lodge to Mountie KofC, but I didn't know they would not allow you to join a lodge later. I know there has been a papal bull saying masonry as practiced in the US is "mostly harmless.". If I were in the situation, and it would not adversely affect my family or career, I'd let them decide if I could be a member, then I'd tell them where to stick I as I resigned. Mind you if the lodge had some silly rule like this, I'd do the same thing.
     
  3. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    You think that the KoC thing has anything to do with the Catholic Church's opinion of Freemasonry??? Just Saying.

    Just wait for the reaction you'll get if you ever petition the York Rite...
     
  4. robert leachman

    robert leachman Registered User

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    Vatican II says it's OK for a Catholic to be a Mason.
    Not sure about KoC
     
  5. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    I do know for a fact that even if the "Vatican II" says that Freemasonry is "okay", there are several Priests still pursuing their parishioners who are members. I can verify this {privately} as recently as a month ago in Louisiana. Also if I am not mistaken, there has been some heated conversation between the KoC and KT... All of this of course is ancient history...
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  6. MikeMay

    MikeMay Premium Member

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    Since your looking for opinions, my humble opinion is that you pursue where your heart leads you. From your description you said you wanted to join the KoC because of your desire bond with your father-in-law and there is nothing wrong with that, but if your real desire is in masonry, then you already have your answer. However, that is just my opinion.
     
  7. tom268

    tom268 Registered User

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    As far as I know, and I'm a catholic too, no papal bull ever stated, that masonry is OK or "mostly harmless". The POW of Rome just changed in two small aspects. The name freemasonry was deleted out of the Codex, so that we are together with "all those organizations" that are not OK, but no longer named explicitly.

    And second, and for the more important aspect, you are no longer in a grieve sin as a catholic mason, and therefore excluded from the sacrament, but only in a pardonable sin. Your own consciousness shall be the rule, as it is the voice of G-D.

    I think, what you experience is twofold. It is a matter on how hardliners view the canonical codex, as I guess, the hardliners make it up to the higher echelons in the KofC, and second, it is politics, as they are two similar organizations, fishing in the same pond. And that usually leads to jealousy.
     
  8. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    This is almost exactly to what I was referencing. I know of recent incidents where masons were told that they could not receive the Holy Sacrament unless they removed themselves from the order... Obviously Freemasonry after all of these hundreds of years is still not "okay" in the eyes of the Church.
     
  9. cemab4y

    cemab4y Premium Member

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    (I am not a Roman Catholic). The current pope, is probably the most anti-Masonic pope, to sit in the chair of St. Peter, for a very long time. You can do a google search on Cardinal Ratzinger (his previous name), and read all about his feelings on the Craft. Catholics who are Masons, can be denied communion. This is a sad reality. I will pray for you, and may the Great Architect of the Universe guide your steps.
     
  10. KFerguson84

    KFerguson84 Premium Member

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    I'm positive that it has something to do with that. I find the church's position on this preposterous. Myself and another Catholic Mason were discussing this topic previously and he agreed. If Freemasonry came out and said it was strictly Catholic, the church would have no problem. The Catholic church does not like it's parishioners associating with people of other faiths and this is a prime example.
     
  11. usmc05

    usmc05 Registered User

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    I am a Catholic and a Freemason. I belong to the KofC and to the york and scottish rite. Never had any problems. I love my faith and Masonry. If I had to choose I would stay a Mason though. Pray and seek light is all I can say.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2011
  12. LRG

    LRG Premium Member

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    I was born and raised Catholic, received all the sacraments except the last(not looking forward to that on). I got away from religion and moved more to Faith. I believe in the Almighty Father and His Son Jesus Christ. But if a preacher-common man- was to attempt to deny me the Euchrist, well how would he be and what would he deny himself in the longrun?
    The vatican is one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, but how many hospitals and healthcare groups do they have, in which they support, all for free toward human kind?
    I know what the craft offers to humanity, but I don't know about the Catholic Religion (none).
    If your a Master Mason, how much evil have you been exposed to? NONE. We are men of one GOD under one Heaven and when we open are doors to sick children, we can care less of what church if any, they belong to, only that they are a human being.
    My dad tried to by insurance from the KoC, he has been apracticing Catholic and sunday mass goer, but he was denied and told that it is only for Knight of Columbus. Humm. So you can belong to the Catholic Church but you can not purchase its programs. As they built the sacred calf, lined it with the finest materials known to man, they then raised it above their shoulders and praised it and as Catholics, we have done the same thing to a common man-the pope-.
     
  13. fairmanjd

    fairmanjd Registered User

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    My Dad was a Knight and had many good friends he knew to be Masons. They all got along great. All that being said, we were, at the time, members of a pretty laid back parish (Immaculate Conception of Denton, TX.
     
  14. Dave in Waco

    Dave in Waco Premium Member

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    I would say follow Brother Tom's advice. He sounds like he's pretty knowledgable about both organizations. The KoC that I know don't seem to hold anything against Masons. I think a lot of it comes down to the person. I know the Catholic Church has long had an axe to grind against Freemasons. Most of it came during a time when the Church was under attack from different groups that had left the Catholic faith. But from what I've seen, the hate from the KoC come from a lot of the same sources most anti-Masonic hatred comes from.

    I will say this, every tyrantical ruler has outlawed Freemasonry in the past few centuries. Some make outragious claims against Freemasonry, but it's all for the same reason. Freemasonry embraces free thought, and free thought is a dangerous thing to have when someone is trying to control a group.
     
  15. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    I will certainly admit that not All of the Catholic Church is against Freemasonry. It does seem that some priests and officials are more vocal against the fraternity than others. I am simply making reference to those who are strongly opposed and the ties between the KoC and the Church. I am certainly not one to get into a religious debate with anyone, because I feel that no one denomination or religious belief is more superior than another.
     
  16. KFerguson84

    KFerguson84 Premium Member

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    I completely agree with you, Brother Stewart. My father is a Scottish Protestant and my mother is an Irish Catholic. Both sides are very proud of their heritage so even though I was raised Catholic, I was always taught by my parents that no religion is superior. Just believe in a God, be a peaceful person, and be yourself. Sometimes I feel as though my own religion doesn't tolerate that belief. I think that is why I have such a strong attraction to Masonry. I value knowledge and free thought very much and Freemasonry is the only place outside academia where those two things are valued so highly.
     
  17. davidterrell80

    davidterrell80 Past Master Premium Member

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    Over the last two years, in pursuit of my masters in ancient and classical history, I'm made a couple of friends who are professors at American Catholic University--both Jesuits. I'll be seeing them later this week and will bring up the Craft.

    We shall see what their opinion will be.
     
  18. KFerguson84

    KFerguson84 Premium Member

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    I look forward to your response. The Jesuits are known to be the more liberal and highly educated branch of the Catholic Church so it would be interesting to hear they're opinions on the matter.
     
  19. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Prayers for our Brother who has found himself in this uncomfortable position are the best thing we can offer. The RCC's views on Freemasonry are misinformed, at best, but bashing the institution that is central to his faith isn't going to make his predicament any easier to resolve. A decision WRT the Knights of Columbus might be a little easier to make, but wouldn't relish having to make that one either.

    Brother Ferguson,
    Please know that I feel for you and the conflict you are suffering now. Consider your tools, Craftsman. Choose and employ those that might best be employed here. You, and more precisely, your conscience, will bear the the most significant results of your decisions. Others (family, friends, church, other organizations), not so much. So choose the path that squares with your conscience and step off with conviction.
     
  20. AnthonyBolding

    AnthonyBolding Registered User

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    Think of it this way. Masonry encourages you to practice your faith but this other organization discriminates you if you are. If masonry is your passion then do it
     

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