Not passing your examination

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by nixxon2000, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    So here is a strange question. What happens if a candidate does not pass the degree examination (ea, fc, or mm) ?

    We had one tonight that almost did not pass in my opinion. Just curious what your lodge does in that case? Thanks
     
  2. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    It shouldn't ever happen because the instructor should not present a candidate for examination who is not prepared. However, it sometimes happens and the Lodge should (tactfully) remand the candidate for further instruction. The important thing is that the candidate understands the lessons taught by way of the work, not that he recites the wording perfectly.
     
  3. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    And I think that's part f my point. He has a photographic memory. He knows the book bit not the meaning. He says he's ready but does not understand what were teaching him.

    Thought.

    Sent from my freemasonry pro app on my galaxy s5.
     
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  4. Pscyclepath

    Pscyclepath Premium Member

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    Agree with Bill... a lecturer or instructor should not present a candidate who isn't ready. If a person has a problem choking up in front of the lodge, the Master can arrange to have him examined by a committee, which then reports back to the lodge.

    But in case the committee or the lodge votes unfavorably, that just requires the candidate to practice some more before trying again. In jurisdictions where there is a time limit for turning in the lectures, there may need to be an extension, otherwise, keep practicing.

    When I teach the lectures, I will exemplify it for him (at the degree, typically he only gets to hear it up to the obligation), then I go thru it part by part, as to what each piece really means. Then we start the learn-by-rote process so that he starts the memorization. If you simply start memorization without the explanation, that might be part of the problem...
     
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  5. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    What has all been said I agree with. He needs time to learn and we should provide him as much support as we can.

    Now the hypothetical person that's trying to learn and just can't seem to grasp it for one reason or another. How long do they keep training them?

    Has anyone seen someone not be able to complete the degree examinations?

    Sent from my freemasonry pro app on my galaxy s5.
     
  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    In the jurisdictions I know the memorization is all that is required. He'd pass. The brothers in attendance might have no idea he does not understand what he just parroted.

    As long as they are willing to continue working. I've seen guys who didn't expect to have to work much to earn their degrees not progress.
     
  7. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    That's interesting I know people who talk about joining just to learn the secrets. Maybe this is one say to sift them out.

    Sent from my freemasonry pro app on my galaxy s5.
     
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  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Yes, I've seen those who have failed examination (in England I've never seen this happen as only few questions asked and the Deacon will coach the candidate).
     
  9. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    While visiting other lodges I've seen candidates who have to be prompted every second or third word that still passed.
     
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  10. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    That is not true in all jurisdictions
     
  11. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Yeah, in Kentucky the exam has to be in lodge.
     
  12. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    In FL Prince Hall lodges you have to do it in lodge and if you can't show suitable proficiency .......and we where at times asked a question ,and after answering, then asked to explain what does that mean to you in your life/travels so if he had no understanding/overstanding of the lesson he would Not have passed , you have the rest of your life to be a Mason but you only go through the degrees once it's a journey not a destination "traveling man "travel liGht my brothers
     
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  13. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    Brother, I see a candidate who needed the Deacon to prompt him for full answers every single questions and he still passed...
    Furthermore, when he was asked to do a First degree sign, he gave the Second degree one and with different hands... When he was asked about the Second degree sign, he gave the First's...
    I agree that a candidate should be well-prepared before the examinations, otherwise we just like a normal society.
     
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  14. nixxon2000

    nixxon2000 Premium Member

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    I really think we should have a gold standard for initiations. It should be harder to join the 3rd Degree.
     
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  15. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    We do in my jurisdiction if you don't satisfy the craft and the WM upon examination when showing proficiency you do not pass go do not collect $200 the first 3 degrees in masonry are earned not given , not brought , build your temple on a solid foundation not sinking sand , rushing a brother trough degrees when they are not proficient only stagnates his advancement in truly understanding the material in my opinion we are not just craftsmen we are Master builders
     
  16. BroBill

    BroBill Site Benefactor Site Benefactor

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    I enjoy taking EAs and FCs to near-by lodges when they confer those degrees so the EA or FC can see the degree at least once while doing their work. It's a great way to explain the work in plain language while they observe it in due form.
     
  17. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I recall a candidate who had to deliver his entire proficiency by repeating. He'll never enter the line but well over a decade in he remains one of the most active Masons in the district. At times being generous is for the best of the order.

    Being left handed I struggled with that a lot and I still get them reversed a couple percent of the time.

    The signs are subtly different in detail jurisdiction to jurisdiction. As most are quick to make them the differences don't appear. One of the signs in Texas is in a different order than in other states and I constantly struggle with that difference. Looking around the room you can tell who's visiting.
     
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  18. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I see your point.
     
  19. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    He might've gotten thrown out the window smh lol
     
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  20. Pete Ramboldt

    Pete Ramboldt Registered User

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    "Being left handed I struggled with that a lot and I still get them reversed a couple percent of the time"
    I'm a lefty also. When I do the signs I pay attention to my ring. I always wear my ring on my rught hand. So when I do the signs I remember that my ring will always lay on the VSL. (Keeps me out of trouble - hope this helps!)
     
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