Platon, The allegory of the cave.

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by bashkim, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. bashkim

    bashkim Registered User

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    I studied in Greece and one of the most beautiful subjects that were teached in high school was Philosophical writtings from ancient Greece (my favourite subject). Professors teached us the interpretation of this allegory but i dont know if it was 100% right. What are your thoughts upon this ancient Greek allegory?
     
  2. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    In Short summary: There is more to life then what we see of we actully take the step and try to look in another way then we usally do.
     
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    "The Matrix" was a great modern day spin on it.
     
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  4. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    A New Mexican version; you watch amazing sunsets from your favourite perch day after day. One day you think to look behind you and discover all the beauty you’ve been missing.
     
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  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Platon always gets to the Truth !
    :p
     
  6. bashkim

    bashkim Registered User

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    Call him Plato if u want. His name is Plátōn (Πλατων) :p:p
    i felt an irony on ur comment :p
     
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  7. otherstar

    otherstar Registered User

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    I'd like to read how you think this is so.....such a claim seems rather specious to me.
     
  8. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    LOL! About as specious as your ploy. Nice try.
     
  9. otherstar

    otherstar Registered User

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    Serioulsy? I was asking an honest question. I'd not heard that comparison before, and I wanted to know more. You don't have to be a jerk....
     
  10. otherstar

    otherstar Registered User

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    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  11. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    You used a jerky word* and call me a jerk for using it back? Yes, seriously not a friendly start Bro.

    If you are serious, perhaps using less derogatory language would provide a friendlier response next time.

    As for your honest question, here's a starter link for you to consider. The Matrix comparison starts at slide 21...

    https://www.slideshare.net/abhinaviitg/allegory-of-the-cave-and-the-matrix

    * Specious - superficially plausible, but actually wrong.
     
  12. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    The allegory of the cave has many meanings.

    You do not observe the world around you with a primary sense. Everything you experience is secondary.

    IE you do not see the brown table. The table has properties that reflects light in such a way that your eyes capture it. Your eyes have rods and cones that transmit the image to your brain which is then converted into something for you to build the world around you. Hence you see the shadow of everything and not the actual thing.

    We can never "look out" at something. We can only see what is given to us. Hence seeing the shadow of figures and not the actual figures. Even if you could see behind the veil, you'd be seeing the light reflected off the figures, not the figures themselves.

    Another fun fact to ponder. Light travels through space. We can calculate how fast it travels based on the distance between it's origin and terminus. Why? Because speed equals distance divided by time. However, from light's perspective, the time experienced from origin to terminus is instantaneous. There is no time involved. Contemplate that while looking into the depths of space... Sorry, observing space

    But I digress...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  13. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I like the way you break it down. I've done similarly and continue to do so in my travels. I've found deconstruction that doesn't take into consideration any target's synergy is no longer evaluating the target.

    Here are some thoughts on your evaluations and conclusions...

    Agreed!
    Everything? Can one never, ever, have a primary experience of anything based upon your model?
    Isn't that what we call "seeing"?
    Are we seeing shadows or are we "seeing" a visual representation of what our eyes sense?
    Primary logical fallacy. Are you not redefining terms and then, based upon your new definition, exerting a leading premise to support your conclusions.
    But you already, by your definitions, claimed "We can never 'look out' at something." How can we then "see what is given to us"?
    And based upon your model, we cannot even see the shadows of these figures since shadows are something we cannot "see".
    The problems one faces with applying deconstructionism is the method never recognizes, acknowledges and accounts for the synergism of the evaluated systems.

    It never addresses the question: At what point does one's deconstruction efforts leave the synergistic reality created by the system and moves into a straw man reality where what is being discussed has nothing to do with the primary system being evaluated?

    Case in point: The Zeno Paradoxes are only paradoxes because of the Trivial methods used to evaluate what is offered. All these paradoxes go away once the Quadrivium is applied. It was used by Zeno to evaluate his students to see if they had mastered the skills developed by Quadrivium studies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019

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