Rosicrucians and Masonry

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by nfasson, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    As in, is there an influence and if so, what are the beliefs of Rosicrucians and how does that impact or have impacted Freemasonry?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2013
  2. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    There are Scottish Rite degrees about Rosicrucian influence on Masonry. You may want to join the AASJ.

    There are also independent Rosicrucian orders like www.amorc.org that teach Rosicrucian lessons.
     
  3. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    During the late 18th and early 19th Centuries Freemasons (mainly in France at first) became interested in rosicrucian ideas and how they could interweave with Freemasonry and they wrote some degrees that are still practised today.

    Looking at the earliest known degree information from the 16th Century such as the Haliwell manuscript et al shows that there was no evidence of influence of external systems on the simple Masonic system that existed until the opening decades of the 18th Century and the introduction of the first ever Grand Lodge of Freemasons in 1717.
     
  4. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    But what exactly do they believe? It looks very New Age to me...
     
  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Define "new age." It's a relatively new term, whereas the Rose and the Cross have existed for centuries.
    Masonic R+C societies have a Christian requirement. (At least the US one does.)
     
  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    As they survey all mysticism across the ages that's a very large topic. Even an rough outline takes a large tome.

    The expression "New Age" is pretty hilarious when you think about it. Those newfangled pyramid things; back in the day we had stacks of rocks and we were thrilled to have that much. Chortle. The "New" means it's popular again very recently as in the 1600s. It's like "neo-" in Neolithic - The "new" stone age.
     
  7. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    I saw a Druid hippie they other day, playing loud music and leaving stone slabs all over the place. *shakes fist*
     
  8. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    I say New Age b/c The Order teaches things that no Christian would consider orthodox by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not sure how you could reconcile this with the teachings of traditional Christian theology bc it includes ideas that would be considered incompatible, such as reincarnation.

    The first lesson covers:

    Illusory Nature of Time and Space
    Human Consciousness and Cosmic Consciousness
    Rosicrucian Technique of Meditation
    Development of the Intuition
    Human Aura
    Telepathy
    Metaphysical Healing
    Mystical Sounds
    Spiritual Alchemy

    The list goes on... I'm not here to judge one way or the other, but whatever they are teaching ain't Christian, man. Nor does it seem particularly a-religious either.

    Now, the Scottish Rite and Rosy Whatever... are these based on the Order's teachings? Or is it something completely different (cue Monty Python)? Does Masonry borrow anything from this belief system?

    I just don't want to walk into a situation where I'm asked to read up or believe a bunch of stuff that is purported to lift me up or enlighten me as a Mason but is so steeped in New Age religious influences that I have to show myself the door. That would suck.

    Again, not trying to judge, just gathering info before I dive in...
     
  9. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    The Scottish Rite references Rosicrucianism in the same sense that it does so with Kabbalah, Confucianism, and others. The Scottish Rite (and likewise Masonry as a whole) do not propagate or promote *any* specific dogma, but does allude to/reference/talk about some of the principles in areas much like the heavy Hermetic influence in the Blue Lodge. It does not teach it as truth, but is more like pulling together ideas from across several ideologies and presenting them to you for your own contemplation. Much like the many references to the KJV Bible in Masonry, yet a Muslim man may be a Mason and still take away important lessons without being asked to believe in Christianity.

    As like everything in Masonry, you are not asked to "believe" any of it other than the Supreme Deity, but there is much to be gained by examining other ways of thinking and contemplating on them.

    But to alleviate your concerns a bit, pretty much none of those things you listed come to mind when I think back to my Rose Croix degrees and indeed not much Rosicrucianism in general.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  10. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    Thank you. This puts me so much more at ease. I was getting fearful that Masonry might have been co- opted by Rosicrucian tenets.

    Increasing knowledge and engaging in logical discussion without bias or prejudice to form your own opinion... how absolutely refreshing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    That is one of the better theories on how Masonry transitioned from a guild/union of operative Masons to a band/society of speculative Masons. The results are to be found in our ritual and symbols. Seek and ye shall find. But as you point out ...

    Exactly. The mystical stuff is there for the finding. Doesn't mean most brothers seek it, nor that they subscribe to it. Masonry comes from a time when separation of church and state was starting and as a result philosophy and theology were being teased out as well. But our roots draw from the time before that separation and from when radicals like Solomon delved into the philosophy of his era that included the mystical stuff.
     
  12. BroBook

    BroBook Premium Member

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    You can read about anything without joining, that being said I new very little about the craft but I am/was assured that it would not require me to do this , this or that!
     
  13. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    So? One can find teaching in Shinto, which is older than Christianity, that no Christian would consider Orthodox. Traditional Siberian shamanism has teachings no Christian would consider orthodox, either. "New Age" is not the same thing as "doesn't agree with Christian doctrines". "New Age" as a religious movement started in the 1970s, with precursors going back a century.
     
  14. nfasson

    nfasson Registered User

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    This is why I'm even bringing this up... a Christian requirement even though the originating Rosicrucian tenets include certain beliefs that are not compatible with Christian doctrine by definition. That's where I'm confused.

    Anyways, I feel like David Letterman now... drove this into the ground far enough.
     
  15. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    That's one reason I've avoided the topic thus far. Any recommendations for a primer on the subject? Also, should Masons consider joining AMORC? As I understand it, we have one masonic rosicrucian group in Texas, and its membership is limited, so it's not as open a door as you find with the AASR.
     
  16. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    SRICF colleges are limited to 72 members, and with very few exceptions, there is only one per state. They are also invitation only, so in a large state (like TX) it could be years before there is an open seat.
     
  17. Mac

    Mac Moderator Premium Member

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    Agreed. So is AMORC something "the rest of us" should look into if curious about this subject?


    Sent via mobile app (Freemason Connect HD)
     
  18. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    I know a number of Brothers who are members of AMORC. There are other groups, but that is the most established. They have a museum in San Jose I hope to visit in the near future.
     
  19. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    As a separate order, membership in the AMORC is a separate decision.

    I suggest an answer to the opposite question - Should Masons avoid joining AMORC? To me the answer is no. There's no conflict that I know of when it comes to what outsiders can learn of the AMORC lessons. The AMORC is a lot smaller than Masonry but there are percentage of AMORC members who are brothers. Some Masons have decided to become AMORC members and are happy with their membership. But the focus of their lessons seems to be different enough that some Masons would not want to join for reasons not directly related to Masonry.

    But the positive question - Should Masons consider joining the AMORC? There's a lot to Masonry that is not related to Rosicrucian topics so I don't think it's automatic that a brother would want to consider it. There are reasons one individual might not want to join, as with nfasson's objection to New Age ideas that appear core to AMORC (from my perspective as a non-member who has read some of their books). There are reasons one individual might want to join, if Rosicrucian topics keep coming up in your life.

    In San Antonio there is an AMORC group that hosts monthly open events. I've been to a few of them but for the moment I have not decided to join. I'm too busy with family, work, lodge and church activities to fit in another fraternal order. It's the same line of reasoning why I have no joined an American Legion lodge as well. I know what happens when I join a new order - my signature does list the 3 years I've been in the east.
     
  20. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This is one of the things that drew me to the AASR.
     

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