Short form or long form?

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by rebis, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. rebis

    rebis Premium Member

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    Hello brothers, here on the left coast, a candidate can chose to do his proficiency for EA and FC in short form. Which means only the obligation.

    After only repeating the obligation, he would advance to the next degree.

    To me this does not seam fair and just to all brothers that worked hard at their "long form" proficiencies.

    Why should a candidate that worked at less than half the proficiency get the same honor and distinction as all other candidates that put in day after day of work to get the entire proficiency down?



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  2. scw538

    scw538 Registered User

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    Long form is the only way to go in my op. I put in tons of hours and enjoyed all of them. It makes you respect each degree more when you know what that brother has done to get to each new step.


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  3. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    The "short form" sounds like a completely tragic neutering of the craft IMO. I can't understand taking the Masonry out of Freemasonry by taking out the need to actually learn the meaning of the degree and boiling it down to a few short paragraphs. Just terrible.


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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
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  4. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    There are so many lessons to be learned from the long form that it'd be a shame not to have to learn it.
     
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  5. jmiluso

    jmiluso Registered User

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    I also feel that the longform is the correct form to use when giving your degree. I know that I would not have learned as much if I had done the short form return, part of masonry is to learn and be patient. If you do the short form you're not really given a chance to understand what was just done with you.


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  6. Starr

    Starr Registered User

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    How do you feel about the idea of the one day class? I personally don't understand why anyone would allow it. I feel it takes away from all the learning.


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  7. rebis

    rebis Premium Member

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    Freemasonry is getting hacked left and right.
    Short form...one day classes...opening each stated meeting on the first degree...etc

    To me it is indicative that GL wants to hurry everybody through the degrees to get the candidates to pay dues ASAP assuring revenue streams.


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  8. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    I'm not sure how opening on the first can be considered a "hack." It actually increases the skills of the officers (they must learn three opening and closing rituals in NM), and it keeps new members in the fold. I was glad I could attend meetings as soon as I was Initiated.
     
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  9. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, stated meetings used to always be opened in the first but it was changed like 150 years ago or so. There's a good article on this somewhere on the net I'll try to dig up sometime when I'm home. My point though, is that allowing meetings to be opened on the first is more a return to the old ways.
     
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  10. bezobrazan

    bezobrazan Registered User

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    I did all mine long form & I'm glad I did. Whether short or long, they should be said with conviction.


    A true man learns to soften his heart and stiffen his spine.
     
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  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Outside of North America there never was the switch to Stated meetings in the third degree in the first place. For that matter there never was a time when EAs weren't charged dues or weren't allowed a vote at Stated meetings. Correcting back towards the world-wide standard was absolutely not a "hack".

    That leads me to wonder about proficiencies as well. A reference to real history might well be equally educational. Are complaints about reduced standard equally ignorant of history and world wide standards? What are the history and world wide standards with regards to proficiencies?

    I've read references to the brethren instructing a candidate privately. This sounds like teaching even less than the wording of the obligation. I've also read of requiring a candidate to present a research paper before advancing. This sounds very different from but a similar amount of work as the long form.

    I didn't even consider the short form for my proficiencies. But by the time I got to learning the Master's lecture for the third degree I didn't even consider the long form of it when I was qualifying to take the east the first time around. All things are relative.
     
  12. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    We have to do the long form in Kentucky as fas as I know.
     
  13. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Yes, probably the biggest thing that came out of the 1846 meeting between grand jurisdictions in the United States. Yes, most grand lodges did open in the EA.
     
  14. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    I think this experiment between long and short form should be concluded.
    Those whom I have witnessed who took the short form are nowhere around, they do not attend Lodge, nor are they in the officer corps
    It appears to be the distinction between those who join for themselves and those who join to be part of.
    Long form rules.
     
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  15. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    In the UGLE, the candidate answers about 11 questions, with the deacon there by his side to assist.

    As for one day classes, in Scotland the two degrees were confirmed at the same time. Stephenson, The First Freemasons.
     
  16. LAMason

    LAMason Premium Member

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    Are you talking about one day classes or some other abbreviated format? Does California have one day classes and if so in what circumstances are the allowed?
     
  17. GKA

    GKA Premium Member

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    Short form proficiency
     
  18. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    This particular thread is about lectures or other ritual that have optional forms. Examples in California ritual - There is an optional long form closing that replays all of the parts of the opening, as well as the more common short for that takes about half as long. There long and short forms of the apron presentation lecture available in California. There is an optional extension of the third degree lecture that adds several paragraphs.

    When I was still in California (I left in 2000) about once per year the GM declared "all the way in one day" classes. They generally included either SR or YR appendent body degrees as well. I don't know if those are still conducted with any regularity in California. I have not seen mention of any such classes in the quarterly California Freemason magazine for a number of years.
     
  19. Michael Burke

    Michael Burke Registered User

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    I went through the degrees in a lodge that only performed the short versions. I have recently become attached to a Nevada lodge that uses the long version. I have found the long version to be quite repetitious and in my opinion is unecesary.

    The lessons are sound in both forms, and in our fast paced, overworked society the long form can be quite a time burden for a new young applicant with a family and other life distractions. Perhaps that is why some lodge memberships have stagnated or dwindled.

    I believe that we as Masons must represent the cement that holds use together, and by being the best example of Free Masonry, our new members will learn by our examples regardless of weather we use the short or long form.
     
  20. HerrickMusic

    HerrickMusic Registered User

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    I'm a music teacher and people remember best with repetition, not only with learning music but with everything we do.... We get better with everything when its repeated! Well that is just my thoughts only so I say long form....
     
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