Study on the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world.

[vinceatwork]

I am searching for information for a Study about the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world, which I have undertaken. I already have the answers for Pennsylvania, Montana, New Brunswick, Cuba, Germany, and Italy.

Masonic Protocol does not permit me to contact Grand Lodges directly, and since such information is rarely or not at all available on the internet, I wonder whether any of you can answer a list of questions I have prepared for this study as pertaining to any Masonic Jurisdiction in any part of the world. Here is the List:


The purpose of this research is to form a snapshot of the Present Conditions of Masonry in the world,as compared to the past, and draw from it lessons that may help us Masons work to address present issues, recognize successes or failures, and find solutions for the better future of our Craft. The sources of the information I may receive will remain completely confidential, and under no circumstance I shall disclose it. At the conclusion of this study I will disclose my findings, but not the sources, to all those who have contributed, and they will be free to use this information as they deem it proper.

Questions:

1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

5. What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?

6. What is the average membership size of yourLodges?


7. What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?

8. How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?

9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

14. What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?

15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?

21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

22. Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

24. Universality. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

28. What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)

29. Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the most moral human institution that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?

30. Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area?

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

35. Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?

= = = = = = = =

For further information on this Study, feel free to contact me: Bro. Vincent Lombardo – P.M. Quinte St. Alban’s Lodge No. 620 G.R.C., Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, +1 905 - 731-0504 vince.lombardo.to@gmail.com

 

[Bloke]

Hi Brother

I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.

That said, I will answer what I can:


1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

About 12K and it is down from about 14K

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

Mixed. Many warrants have been handed in, all lodges I am involved in are prospering with one exception.

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

Prosperity - vibrant membership supported by occasional social
Decline - failure to attract members and exhaustion of the leaders

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

Mixed. Male LOL.


9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

Our lodges do no go dark and meet 11 times a year skipping Jan or Dec according to when they meet in the month.

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

Default, as in dues ? (The question could be clearer). Automatic exclusion after 3 years non-payment.

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

Co-owned, often not rented.

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

Generally no, external hire is the key feature in supporting a temple in metro areas.

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

Initiation$250 GL Fee, $104.50 GL capitation. Lodges set their own fees. No degree fee



15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

No. They can be proposed by GL via dispensation. It is becoming common. It's helping us build membership. They are still interviewed and some declined.

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

References and interviews.

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

It happens, but generaally before application. Rejection of an applicant comes prior to voting, generally on character grounds or some personality problem.

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

EA to FC, not less than 12 weeks. EA to MM, not less than 52 weeks. They must undertake education courses as an EA before advancing to each degree.

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

No, such a regulations exists on a lodge level.

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?'

Yes. and vote


21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

Yes.

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

No.

24. Universality. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

There is nothing in the const. prohibiting such an initiation. I would support such an applicant.

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

They are not regulated.

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

Talks, socials, fundraising.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

It varies greatly from lodge to lodge.

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

Yes, open days, open socials, open installations.

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

Yes.

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

WBro.

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

On a lodge level, uncommon, usual reason is moving interstate.

 

[vinceatwork]

Hi Brother

I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.

That said, I will answer what I can:


1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

About 12K and it is down from about 14K

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

Mixed. Many warrants have been handed in, all lodges I am involved in are prospering with one exception.

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

Prosperity - vibrant membership supported by occasional social
Decline - failure to attract members and exhaustion of the leaders

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

Mixed. Male LOL.


9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

Our lodges do no go dark and meet 11 times a year skipping Jan or Dec according to when they meet in the month.

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

Default, as in dues ? (The question could be clearer). Automatic exclusion after 3 years non-payment.

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

Co-owned, often not rented.

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

Generally no, external hire is the key feature in supporting a temple in metro areas.

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

Initiation$250 GL Fee, $104.50 GL capitation. Lodges set their own fees. No degree fee



15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

No. They can be proposed by GL via dispensation. It is becoming common. It's helping us build membership. They are still interviewed and some declined.

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

References and interviews.

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

It happens, but generaally before application. Rejection of an applicant comes prior to voting, generally on character grounds or some personality problem.

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

EA to FC, not less than 12 weeks. EA to MM, not less than 52 weeks. They must undertake education courses as an EA before advancing to each degree.

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

No, such a regulations exists on a lodge level.

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?'

Yes. and vote


21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

Yes.

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

No.

24. Universality. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

There is nothing in the const. prohibiting such an initiation. I would support such an applicant.

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

They are not regulated.

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

Talks, socials, fundraising.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

It varies greatly from lodge to lodge.

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

Yes, open days, open socials, open installations.

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

Yes.

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

WBro.

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

On a lodge level, uncommon, usual reason is moving interstate.

I am searching for information for a Study about the present conditions of Freemasonry in the world, which I have undertaken. I already have the answers for Pennsylvania, Montana, New Brunswick, Cuba, Germany, and Italy.

Masonic Protocol does not permit me to contact Grand Lodges directly, and since such information is rarely or not at all available on the internet, I wonder whether any of you can answer a list of questions I have prepared for this study as pertaining to any Masonic Jurisdiction in any part of the world. Here is the List:


The purpose of this research is to form a snapshot of the Present Conditions of Masonry in the world,as compared to the past, and draw from it lessons that may help us Masons work to address present issues, recognize successes or failures, and find solutions for the better future of our Craft. The sources of the information I may receive will remain completely confidential, and under no circumstance I shall disclose it. At the conclusion of this study I will disclose my findings, but not the sources, to all those who have contributed, and they will be free to use this information as they deem it proper.

Questions:

1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

5. What is the average age now found among the members? Is the age average now changed (up or down) as compared to the past?

6. What is the average membership size of yourLodges?


7. What percentage of the membership is usually present at the lodge meetings?

8. How often do members meet, in lodge or socially, each month?

9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

14. What are the most common reasons today in your Grand Jurisdiction that entice a petitioner to join a Lodge?

15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?

21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

22. Are any believers of other (not mainstream) faiths excluded from membership?

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

24. Universality. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

28. What is the perception of Freemasonry by the general public in your area? (City, State, Province or Country)

29. Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the most moral human institution that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?

30. Does this assertion sound true to the general (profane) public in your area?

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

35. Is there any other information about the present practice of Masonry in your Grand Jurisdiction that would render this study more complete and useful?

= = = = = = = =

For further information on this Study, feel free to contact me: Bro. Vincent Lombardo – P.M. Quinte St. Alban’s Lodge No. 620 G.R.C., Thornhill, Ontario, Canada, +1 905 - 731-0504 vince.lombardo.to@gmail.com

= = = = =
(I hope this is the right place to post a reply - I am new to this medium . . . )

Thank you, Brother.

Are you in the Grand Jurisdiction of Vermont?

Yes, the Grand Secretary would be the Brother to ask these questions but - I have been directed by my Grand Master - through the Grand Secretary - not to contact by letter or email any Grand Jurisdiction outside my own, under the penalty of suspension (and/or expulsion) . . . so, even if more difficult to find, I have no choice but to ask the Brethren, wherever so dispersed upon the face of the earth.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

29. Does the assertion: “Masonry is not only the most ancient, but the most moral human institution that ever existed” still sounds true to your members?

I am fascinated by this question. This conclusion may be implied in the mythology of Masonry but using the phrase "that ever existed” implies that there is sure knowledge of everything that has ever existed. To me this seems like a logical impossibility.

 

[Bloke]

The V in UGLV is for Victoria in Australia.

It's pretty standard for Constitutions to direct members to correspond with other jurisdictions via their own Grand Secs... you can understand it, I would hate our GL Sec to get daily mail from masons writing to them from other jurisdictions, the volume might be huge.

What you might be able to do is find a Grand Sec who want's the answers, and you assist him... Without quantifiable answers from Grand Lodges, your data is going to be very questionable... frankly of no statiscial weight... it's all going to be hearsay and opinions.

Given you are looking for answers now compared to the past, I assume you have a set of reliable answers from the past ?

 

[Glen Cook]

You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect. I would recommend you go through your grand secretary. You also asked Many questions, appearing to make an undue claim on the secretary's time.

If you wish to have any validity to your research, anonymous internet responses simply won't do.

Some of your questions are easily found by looking the recent MSANA report.

Some of your questions would be unknown in many jurisdictions, i.e., the reasons a candidate is reacted.

I also note you brought up the eagle feather issue, leading one to suspect you have an agenda on that issue. This would, in many jurisdictions, require a jurisprudential review. The likelihood of doing so for an unknown person outside of the responding jurisdiction is decreased.

I would recommend you rethink your goal, consult with MSANA, consult with a more experienced Mason, and obtain official support from either MSANA or your GL

 

[vinceatwork]

It seems there is some history here.

Perhaps if you state what propositions you wish to support or refute then it would save the responders a lot of effort.

James, there is indeed some history here: When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and without hope; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master. Fortunately, a small number of those Grand Lodges weren’t stuck on protocol, and generously gave me detailed and useful information, asking me to share with them the results of my research.

I wish to support or refute no proposition of any kind. The purpose of my study is clearly spelled out in the preamble to my list of questions.

 

[vinceatwork]

Hi Brother

I think a lot of these questions would be best answered by a Grand Secretariat. Members are likely to supply guesses rather than facts.

That said, I will answer what I can:


1. Total number of members in your Grand Jurisdiction - Are the numbers up or down? (As compared to 10 years ago)

About 12K and it is down from about 14K

2. On the whole, do you feel the lodges in your jurisdiction are prospering or declining?

Mixed. Many warrants have been handed in, all lodges I am involved in are prospering with one exception.

3. What are the causes of this prosperity, or decline?

Prosperity - vibrant membership supported by occasional social
Decline - failure to attract members and exhaustion of the leaders

4. Which segments of the population/professions constitute the membership in your area?

Mixed. Male LOL.


9. Do your lodges meet in the summer months?

Our lodges do no go dark and meet 11 times a year skipping Jan or Dec according to when they meet in the month.

10. With the exception of members who can not attend the meetings, due to illness or distance, what remedies or sanctions are enforced against the defaulting members (e.g. complaint, summons to appear and to justify their absence, expulsion or other ....); how common are these cases?

Default, as in dues ? (The question could be clearer). Automatic exclusion after 3 years non-payment.

11. Are the temple’s building generally the property of the lodge, co-owned with other lodges, or rented from others (commercial enterprise)?

Co-owned, often not rented.

12. Are the membership fees sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the Temple, or are some of the Temple facilities rented to the public, to balance income and expenses?

Generally no, external hire is the key feature in supporting a temple in metro areas.

13. What is the average cost of admission (Initiation), and the annual fees (proportionally to the the average daily earning from employment in your country)? Are there additional fees charged for each degree?

Initiation$250 GL Fee, $104.50 GL capitation. Lodges set their own fees. No degree fee



15. Must the Petitioner be known to one or more members of the Lodge?

No. They can be proposed by GL via dispensation. It is becoming common. It's helping us build membership. They are still interviewed and some declined.

16. What investigations about the Applicant for membership are conducted by the lodge after receiving an application for membership – how thorough are these investigations?

References and interviews.

17. Is it usual for an Applicant to be rejected - What are usually the reasons for rejection?

It happens, but generaally before application. Rejection of an applicant comes prior to voting, generally on character grounds or some personality problem.

18. How does an Apprentice qualify for the next level; and the Fellow-craft for the Master's degree? How long does it take for these qualification as a rule?

EA to FC, not less than 12 weeks. EA to MM, not less than 52 weeks. They must undertake education courses as an EA before advancing to each degree.

19. Is a Candidate required to present in lodge one or more Papers (Lectures) to qualify for the next level?

No, such a regulations exists on a lodge level.

20. Are apprentices permitted to speak in Lodge?'

Yes. and vote


21. Is the belief in a “Creator” an indispensable condition for the admission of an applicant?

Yes.

23. Is the belief that the Scriptures (of any religion) constitute the will of God - a determining factor for the approval of an applicant?

No.

24. Universality. - for example: Would a just, righteous and reputable North American Indian (true believer in its traditional spirituality) be admitted in a lodge of your Grand Jurisdiction? - such an Indian having no Bible or equivalent Holy Scriptures, but his spirituality and his faithfulness is represented by the Eagle Feather, holding which he swears and feels bound by it. You will find the reasons for this strange question here: http://www.freemasonryresearchforumqsa.com/the-eagle-feather.php

There is nothing in the const. prohibiting such an initiation. I would support such an applicant.

25. Besides the Bible, what other holy writings are permitted to be displayed on the altar of the Lodges in your Grand Jurisdiction?

They are not regulated.

26. Except for the conferral of degrees (Rituals), what other activities are usually undertaken by the lodge?

Talks, socials, fundraising.

27. What public activities for the benefit of the community do the lodges carry on?

It varies greatly from lodge to lodge.

31. Is any activity of the lodge made public in the media?

Yes, open days, open socials, open installations.

32. Do lodges advertise in their website or in the media, to entice new candidates to join the lodge? (To join Freemasonry.)

Yes.

33. After a Brother has completed his term as Master of the Lodge, does he keep his W. Bro. title, or is addressed simply as Brother?

WBro.

34. How common is the resignation of a brother? What are usually the reasons for resigning?

On a lodge level, uncommon, usual reason is moving interstate.

Bloke, after spending the all day yesterday soliciting help from any Body (other than Grand Lodges), I finally had the opportunity to closely review your answers. I am not surprised of what you wrote in answer to Qs. 2 and 3. I thank you for it.

 

[Glen Cook]

James, there is indeed some history here: When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and without hope; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master. Fortunately, a small number of those Grand Lodges weren’t stuck on protocol, and generously gave me detailed and useful information, asking me to share with them the results of my research.

I wish to support or refute no proposition of any kind. The purpose of my study is clearly spelled out in the preamble to my list of questions.

The Grand Secretary likely has CGMNA GLs on email. For them, it would be an easy task.

 

[vinceatwork]

You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect. I would recommend you go through your grand secretary. You also asked Many questions, appearing to make an undue claim on the secretary's time.

If you wish to have any validity to your research, anonymous internet responses simply won't do.

Some of your questions are easily found by looking the recent MSANA report.

Some of your questions would be unknown in many jurisdictions, i.e., the reasons a candidate is reacted.

I also note you brought up the eagle feather issue, leading one to suspect you have an agenda on that issue. This would, in many jurisdictions, require a jurisprudential review. The likelihood of doing so for an unknown person outside of the responding jurisdiction is decreased.

I would recommend you rethink your goal, consult with MSANA, consult with a more experienced Mason, and obtain official support from either MSANA or your GL

Glen, you write above "You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect." Please see what I wrote in this regard to James below.
MSANA has some numbers, but not the answers to how those numbers came to be, nor the answer to all my questions.
The "Eagle Feather" - I have no agenda, but a desire to know how we understand Universality and Tolerance.
You say: "I would recommend you rethink your goal,..." - I have already given it long and serious thought: I should persevere.
"... consult with a more experienced Mason..." - that is exactly what I am doing.
"... and obtain official support from ... or your GL" - that support has been denied to me.

 

[vinceatwork]

I am fascinated by this question. This conclusion may be implied in the mythology of Masonry but using the phrase "that ever existed” implies that there is sure knowledge of everything that has ever existed. To me this seems like a logical impossibility.

Point, you have a point. But, if after strict examination, you find that Masonry is indeed "the most moral human institution that ever existed," would you not go to the main square with fife and drum and tell it to the world?

 

[Glen Cook]

Glen, you write above "You did contact jurisdictions directly though, as I recollect." Please see what I wrote in this regard to James below.
MSANA has some numbers, but not the answers to how those numbers came to be, nor the answer to all my questions.
The "Eagle Feather" - I have no agenda, but a desire to know how we understand Universality and Tolerance.
You say: "I would recommend you rethink your goal,..." - I have already given it long and serious thought: I should persevere.
"... consult with a more experienced Mason..." - that is exactly what I am doing.
"... and obtain official support from ... or your GL" - that support has been denied to me.

MSANA uses numbers from the GLs, which duplicate some of your information.

My suggestion for more experienced Masons would be to help struture your research.

From your prior posting on the eagle feather, it would appear there is an agenda on the subject. I also suggest that Bulgaria really would be perplexed by the question.

Why was support from your GL declined?

Have you sought support from MSANA? They would be better poised to help you.

Really, resorting to the internet for anonymous input will not provide you the official position of each GL

 

[vinceatwork]

MSANA uses numbers from the GLs, which duplicate some of your information.

My suggestion for more experienced Masons would be to help struture your research.

From your prior posting on the eagle feather, it would appear there is an agenda on the subject. I also suggest that Bulgaria really would be perplexed by the question.

Why was support from your GL declined?

Have you sought support from MSANA? They would be better poised to help you.

Really, resorting to the internet for anonymous input will not provide you the official position of each GL

- Thank you, Glen. I am open and grateful for any help in restructuring my research.
- The Eagle Feather, as declared in my question, is taken as an example - in how to deal with qualified applicants who otherwise do not have a widely acknowledged "book" or "sacred writing."
- As explained this morning, my GL told me to stop contacting other Grand Lodges, following those Gls. complaining of my breach of protocol.
- I have no experience with MSANA. I looked at their website and found no place there. where to ask for assistance. If you know how to do it, please, let me know.
- The internet . . . what other choice do I have? and how reliable is "the official position" of each GL? which I cannot obtain, because ... we are going around in circles, aren't we? And my own GL has told me they cannot give me the answers - because it would take them too much time and effort to find them, time and effort they cannot afford - But they also told me they'll be interested to know the result of my research ...

But tell me, Glen: if you have any answer to my questions, related to your Jurisdiction, why not give them to me?

 

[Glen Cook]

Could I suggest that rather than using the example of the eagle feather, just ask the question you wish answered. However, I'm guessing the answer will be what is called for in ritual and recognition: They use the VSL.

Contact for MSANA: http://www.msana.com/contact.asp

You have not indicated why your GL will not help you contact other jurisdictions, at least for CGMNA. I understand you may not contact them directly and they don't have time to respond to your question. My thrust is different: Draft the email and letter to be sent with two clicks by your GSec.

I am not authorized to speak on all of those issues for my jurisdictions and some of the information you already have available from MSANA. And that is the weakness of your approach to the internet: It is so much gossip.

Another suggestion, at CGMNA in Wisconsin in February, seek approval to submit a SHORT Yes/No questionnaire to either the GM's or the GSec's. You could also do this at the various Regional Masonic Conferences.

Also, have you looked at Paul Bessel's site?

 

[dfreybur]

I am open and grateful for any help in restructuring my research.

Based on proceedings from Lodge of Research in a few states you have bitten off far more than one article justifies. You have questions about population, interpretations of ritual committees, details of requirements. That's at least 3 papers that your own jurisdiction's Lodge of Research may well be interested in.

The Eagle Feather, as declared in my question, is taken as an example - in how to deal with qualified applicants who otherwise do not have a widely acknowledged "book" or "sacred writing.

I am dubious most jurisdictions have ever addressed the question. Much better to ask them if they have encountered the situation at all. In some cases the topic may have come up locally with GL having no idea it happened.

As explained this morning, my GL told me to stop contacting other Grand Lodges, following those Gls. complaining of my breach of protocol.

When I read the questions in your list I was puzzled why you were sending them to the Grand Secretary at all. The population data is published by the Masonic Service Association of North America and might or might not be available at all for world wide jurisdictions. Several questions would have been appropriate for the Grand Lodge Library of each jurisdiction usually run by their Lodge of Research. Several questions are matters of personal opinion best done ad hoc as you have here. Several questions you'd be able to answer by downloading the petition from the web site of each jurisdiction.

 

[vinceatwork]

Could I suggest that rather than using the example of the eagle feather, just ask the question you wish answered. However, I'm guessing the answer will be what is called for in ritual and recognition: They use the VSL.

Contact for MSANA: http://www.msana.com/contact.asp

You have not indicated why your GL will not help you contact other jurisdictions, at least for CGMNA. I understand you may not contact them directly and they don't have time to respond to your question. My thrust is different: Draft the email and letter to be sent with two clicks by your GSec.

I am not authorized to speak on all of those issues for my jurisdictions and some of the information you already have available from MSANA. And that is the weakness of your approach to the internet: It is so much gossip.

Another suggestion, at CGMNA in Wisconsin in February, seek approval to submit a SHORT Yes/No questionnaire to either the GM's or the GSec's. You could also do this at the various Regional Masonic Conferences.

Also, have you looked at Paul Bessel's site?

Thank you, Glen.
When I started this project I knew to answer those questions would require spending considerable time in research on the part of the responded; I was also aware that asking my Grand Secretary to contact on my behalf the 583 Grand Lodges in the world would have been obscene and hopeless; so I decided to write directly to the Grand Lodges, and did so, starting with my own country, and with some of its neighbors in North America. Apparently a great number of those Grand Lodges I had contacted complained to my Grand Lodge (for breach of protocol), thus followed the injunction of my Grand Master: not to contact directly by post or email any Grand Lodge outside my own, under penalty of suspension and even expulsion. Needless to say, my own Grand Lodge declined to give me the answers, for to find them would require them to spend much time and effort. This is why I cannot count on my Grand Secretary, even for two clicks of the mouse.

I am not in the position to travel to the various Regional Masonic Conferences, but I will contact MSANA. Thanks for the link. I will also look into the Bessel site.

 

[vinceatwork]

Based on proceedings from Lodge of Research in a few states you have bitten off far more than one article justifies. You have questions about population, interpretations of ritual committees, details of requirements. That's at least 3 papers that your own jurisdiction's Lodge of Research may well be interested in.

I am dubious most jurisdictions have ever addressed the question. Much better to ask them if they have encountered the situation at all. In some cases the topic may have come up locally with GL having no idea it happened.

When I read the questions in your list I was puzzled why you were sending them to the Grand Secretary at all. The population data is published by the Masonic Service Association of North America and might or might not be available at all for world wide jurisdictions. Several questions would have been appropriate for the Grand Lodge Library of each jurisdiction usually run by their Lodge of Research. Several questions are matters of personal opinion best done ad hoc as you have here. Several questions you'd be able to answer by downloading the petition from the web site of each jurisdiction.

= = = =

Thank you, Doug.
My initial request to the Grand Secretaries was for putting me in contact with "a person or persons in their jurisdiction who might have knowledge of the matters dealt with by my questions." Five jurisdictions in the US and Canada did just that, and I now have their answers. Some have ignored my request, and many others have complained to my Grand Secretary, for breach of protocol. Cuba and Italy have given me the answers, with the blessing of their G. Masters; I obtained the response from Germany through direct correspondence with German Brethren I have corresponded with for many years.

Have I bitten off far more than one article justifies? I don't drink (much) and I don't spend time chasing girls. What else can an old man do, in the last days of his life? - my aim is not "an article," but a study on the present condition of Masonry; where we were, where we are going; what we did and do successfully or foolishly; so the newer members may take notice and make it better.

Lodges of Research? I am exploring them too.

 

[vinceatwork]

It seems to me that the questions you have given are about the body of Masonry.

As we know however from observation, bodies die when the soul is weak or the spirit has left.

While the body of Masonry displays symptoms of its dis-eases, it rarely displays the causes - otherwise the dis-eases would have been dealt with long ago.

= = = =

James, I have to agree with you on all three counts. Do you have any information on what was not done, or is done, or will be done about them in your jurisdiction, to cure the disease?

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

Point, you have a point. But, if after strict examination, you find that Masonry is indeed "the most moral human institution that ever existed," would you not go to the main square with fife and drum and tell it to the world?

Honestly no, I would not. There is a difference between information and knowledge. Demonstrations in the main square may expose people to information but they seldom impart knowledge.

 

[vinceatwork]

Honestly no, I would not. There is a difference between information and knowledge. Demonstrations in the main square may expose people to information but they seldom impart knowledge.

= = = =
It may arouse their curiosity, though. And all our secrecy doesn't help either.