My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

"That's not how we do it..."

LK600

Premium Member
Hello,

So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary. I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated. It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done. A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members. In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each. I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not). In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate. Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual. When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.

That was just one example out of dozens. The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines. My question is should I not be frustrated? Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)
 

Thomas Stright

Premium Member
Doesn't matter if some say that's not We do things here... Those that say this are usually misinformed or never researched the babble they are repeating.

What matters is the lodge does things the way GL dictates.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
What matters is the lodge does things the way GL dictates.
Agreed. Your lodge is very lucky that with only two years in that you are willing to take on the responsibility of Secretary. In my opinion Secretary is the most important job in the lodge. I have made the statement that a lodge can survive a bad Master as long as it has a good Secretary. As long as you are within GL guidelines and those of your Constitution you are in great shape. You are always going to have that someone(s) in lodge that resists any and every change large or small. When I was installed as WM I made a very small change in the way that we opened the lodge. I was well within the fore mentioned guide lines. One of the Old Guard immediately came forth with well known...."We don't do it that way here!" My reply was that we do it that way here for the next twelve months.
 
Last edited:

Winter

Premium Member
I can see where it would be frustrating as you try to take the initiative and do things that may need to be done. But also look at it from the other side of the situation. When you create any documents for the Brothers in your Lodge without the direction or permission of the WM it can be interpreted as undercutting their authority. Neither the content or message was reviewed by the Lodge's leadership to make sure it matches the tone and message that he wants to convey to the Lodge. While I have no doubt you were diligent in its accuracy, the push back may be a result of others seeing your actions as overstepping their bounds. My advice would be to slow down. Remember that nothing in Freemasonry ever happens as fast as it needs to or we would usually like it to happen. Put together a list of ideas you have for the Lodge. Make sure every idea is supported by chapter and verse from your GL's Code that shows it is allowable as well as a clear statement on how that idea would benefit your Lodge. And then submit those ideas in writing to the Master, preferably at an officer's meeting, so they can be discussed by the Lodge's leadership. (Not to mention, your ideas become part of the record that way.) You will need to sell your ideas with clear cost/benefit analysis to Brothers who may be very happy to continue doing things as they always have.

Most importantly, do not let the frustration you will inevitably experience turn you off from trying. You will encounter resistance. Don't take unwillingness to try your new ideas as a personal attack. Just put that one on the shelf to try again later. Your best bet may be to work through the progressive line until you sit in the East and can then dust off your rejected ideas and start delegating them to your officers to enact.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I've received numerous summaries of officer duties as you described. All are similar. All have slight differences. Whatever.

When someone complains can you bring yourself to respond like this? "You Brothers are hilarious. Thanks for the entertaining story."
 

CLewey44

Registered User
Hello,

So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary. I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated. It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done. A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members. In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each. I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not). In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate. Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual. When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.

That was just one example out of dozens. The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines. My question is should I not be frustrated? Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)
Like Bro. Warrior, I can't get passed you being Secretary so quickly but kudos to you for sure.

I definitely think you had the right idea and perfectly good intentions for the lodge and fraternity as a whole but like like Bro. Winter mentioned, the WM or Wardens may have felt a little left out of this endeavor and therefore were concerned with your motives. Again, I know your motives were for the good and I 100% agree with your idea. I think it's a great tool to help people make an informed decision.

I'm curious, who was it that said you shouldn't do this? A current line officer, PM or otherwise? That may help point to THEIR motives for coming to you about this and then disregarding GL guidance as just "recommendations".
 

David612

Registered User
Secretary is a big job, congratulations on taking it on, it’s interesting that you are being actively discouraged- I actually just encountered the same thing for taking on charges.. no idea why
 

LK600

Premium Member
Your lodge is very lucky that with only two years in that you are willing to take on the responsibility of Secretary.

lol, well I guess that remains to be seen. Lucky... or unlucky! ;)

And then submit those ideas in writing to the Master, preferably at an officer's meeting, so they can be discussed by the Lodge's leadership. (Not to mention, your ideas become part of the record that way.)

That's actually a very good idea. Maybe my informal approach is an issue unto itself?

When someone complains can you bring yourself to respond like this? "You Brothers are hilarious. Thanks for the entertaining story."

I could, but I feel that would most likely cause hurt feelings. We have several alpha personalities (myself included) and this would be viewed by some as out right disrespect. I only want to contribute to the Lodge, but I think you are correct in that I need to find a way to brush some of these things off.

but like like Bro. Winter mentioned, the WM or Wardens may have felt a little left out of this endeavor and therefore were concerned with your motives.

Until recently, it would never have occurred to me that in a Lodge ANYONE would second guess the motives of another Brother (yea.. I was naive). In some ways, I am finding we or not separate from, but a reflection of society.

I actually just encountered the same thing for taking on charges.. no idea why

Sometimes (and I mean this internally and not accusing anyone of actually thinking this)... it can feel like new people are wanted as long as they pay dues, fill seats, and sit quietly and support the grownups in the room.
 

David612

Registered User
lol, well I guess that remains to be seen. Lucky... or unlucky! ;)



That's actually a very good idea. Maybe my informal approach is an issue unto itself?



I could, but I feel that would most likely cause hurt feelings. We have several alpha personalities (myself included) and this would be viewed by some as out right disrespect. I only want to contribute to the Lodge, but I think you are correct in that I need to find a way to brush some of these things off.



Until recently, it would never have occurred to me that in a Lodge ANYONE would second guess the motives of another Brother (yea.. I was naive). In some ways, I am finding we or not separate from, but a reflection of society.



Sometimes (and I mean this internally and not accusing anyone of actually thinking this)... it can feel like new people are wanted as long as they pay dues, fill seats, and sit quietly and support the grownups in the room.
In regards to your reply to my quote, I’m inclined to agree- I mean trying to organise all these ambitious young masons must be hard-
Honestly if I had not accepted the role of Chaplain and the EA I’m mentoring I would be looking at another lodge that does need people to fill in roles in degrees-
I’m keen and ready to work, last thing I want is to be told is to slow down without reason.
 

JanneProeliator

Registered User
Now I don't know if I come out as stupid saying this but in deed if you just go and do stuf that effects the whole lodge that might be considered rude. WM is the one running the show and that's how it should be. Ofcourse you should have ideas and you should be bale to present them but do it first to your WM and WITH him to the rest of the lodge. By just doing stuf that effects the whole lodge might seem like you are stepping on some toes or that ypou don't trust your WM to be able to run the lodge.

I don't know if this is the case or if there is something lost in translation but I hope I make sense.
 

David612

Registered User
I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.
I agree but sometimes it just comes down to making a decision and everyone is not always happy with the decision that you make.
 

Winter

Premium Member
I feel as though the master of the lodge is more akin to an MC at any event- while it may appear that they are running the show they are up there because a large group of people put them there-representing them and their interests.

The Master is not analogous to an MC despite the fact that some WM behave that way. The Master of Ceremonies introduces speakers and generally keeps the event moving along but has no power to compel. Even though we elect the Master of a Lodge, he wields absolute power during his term in the East. It is better described as akin to the office of Dictator in the ancient Roman Republic (not Empire) where one man is given absolute power to wield for a set period of time. Look at the example of Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. In my home jurisdiction a sitting WM cannot even be brought up on Masonic charges until after his term.
 

David612

Registered User
The Master is not analogous to an MC despite the fact that some WM behave that way. The Master of Ceremonies introduces speakers and generally keeps the event moving along but has no power to compel. Even though we elect the Master of a Lodge, he wields absolute power during his term in the East. It is better described as akin to the office of Dictator in the ancient Roman Republic (not Empire) where one man is given absolute power to wield for a set period of time. Look at the example of Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus. In my home jurisdiction a sitting WM cannot even be brought up on Masonic charges until after his term.

The Masters “Absolute power” is only applicable if people show up to be subjected to it.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Hello,

So I've been in Freemasonry for 2 years at this point and am about to be installed as Secretary. I mentioned this in a previous post, but I thought I would ask for perspective since I am becoming more and more frustrated. It seems that any idea I (or anyone else fairly new) conveys is summarily ignored, shot down, or excuses are given why it can't or shouldn't be done. A recent example would be due to our elections having recently taken place and installations soon coming, I put together a small "cheat sheet" for the several newer members. In it I listed all of the lodge officers, breaking them down into position, mandatory or not with a brief description of each. I also did the same for committees (brief descriptions with which are mandatory and not). In the following week, I have been warned to be careful before I make someone mad, That I shouldn't be trying to tell the members what they are suppose to do, and that my paper wasn't all that accurate. Mind you, I pulled every bit of it from the Digest and the Grand Lodge Officers manual. When I pointed that out, I was told that the GL Officers manual is just best practices and did not have to be followed.

That was just one example out of dozens. The newer people are told to bring forth their thoughts and feelings but it usually ends along these lines. My question is should I not be frustrated? Should I just bide my time until I have more time in and experience? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. (I also want to state the the Brothers are wonderful people who have been in all other areas great to be with.)
I guess a good question is this; what did you learn and how might you introduce such things more effectively in the future?

It is easy to blame others, but the one thing you can control is how you approach trying to effect change, so don't look to those resisting it, keep looking to yourself how you can better lead or influence it (remembering as sec - your job is to administer and support the WM - not run the lodge - working out the difference, esp how your action are perceived by those around you is key to operating as a good sec).

As a Freemason of two years, in the lodge culture you seem to describe - it might be that you are seen as lacking experience or legitimacy... keep that in mind as something you need to address. With something like your cheat sheet - add "Summary from Grand Lodge Officers manual" and when someone says you have it wrong, tell them where you got it, and if they still object - ask "for their help" and get them to review it and offer any suggestions... Acting on the WM's instructions is a good way to get legitimacy - so get his instructions to write a cheat sheet... Cc'ing Wardens - create a team so it is not just you.

Hasten slowly bro - in my third year as sec, after working with the Treas and WM to financially get us off the rocks,as a PM x3 and 15 years experience I was Cc'ed to a long email from a PM to the WM saying I was "running the lodge" - not true, beyond admin, all the stuff I was doing was at the request or with the express consent of the WM which completely legitimized what I had been doing. I am a big believer in letting the WM be the WM - and that as Sec I am his servant - that approach gave me legitimacy, esp as the Wardens had been Cc'ed in emails and included in discussions.

Sounds like the first thing you need to do is pick your battles, and get the plan to change endorsed by the WM and others...
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Hopefully your WM straightened that PM out.
No - neither of us have been able too. Just giving it some time.. must be about 4+ months now.. The reality is, we cannot sort everything out - it is beyond our power, but nothing is done until it is done - so who knows where it will get to, hopefully somewhere better than now...
 
Top