Thelema

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by A7V, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    ***Disclaimer***
    This post is highly esoteric and involves things that many of you will find go against your own personal beliefs. Please do not attack me, I am just thinking aloud here if you will, and invite any Brother that has a constructive opinion to think with me.

    I only feel the need to place this here due issues in the past when I have discussed other areas of esoterica such as Rosicrucians and the like.
    *** ***


    I have been doing some research into Thelema lately and today was curious about it's place with Freemasonry.

    Thelema is a philosophy or religion based on the dictum, "Do what thou Wilt" as presented in Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law.

    Despite the frequent assumption that "Do what thou Wilt" is solely an exhortation to hedonism or licentiousness, Thelema as it was formulated by Crowley is a path of spiritual development based on seeking and putting into practice one's True Will, or destiny, the soul's Will rather than the ego's desires. If you think about it, this is exactly what we are trying to do when we try to become that perfect ashlar! The ego's desires, are those superfluous edges.

    This shouldn't come as a shock really considering that Crowley was a "Freemason" along the lines of the Memphis-Misraim rites which are considered irregular and clandestine, but have a lot of similarities with our own degree work.

    Thelema basically consists of three seperate bodies the Argenteum Astrum (extremely exclusive), the Ordo Templi Orientis (society) and the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica (religious arm).

    Not being a member, I am not sure but have gleaned from research that one does not have to be a member of Ordo Templi Orientis to be a member of the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica. It is run like any other church, there is no initiations but they do perform baptisms. To be a member of Argenteum Astrum one must be a member of Ordo Templi Orientis and show a deep understanding of the esoteric and also have shown a strong ability in the realms of magick.

    Ordo Templi Orientis is a society of men and women that has degrees and an initiation. They have lodges and meet just as we do.

    Now, I am not sure OTO would allow a member to also become a Freemason... but if they did that is where my questions come in.


    If a candidate was a member of Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, would he be allowed to have a copy of Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law on the altar?

    I personally couldn't see a reason not to allow it but it would surely be strange and I would travel to be there.

    Just running it over in my mind since Thelema is both a religion and a society. They do believe in a God.. but would they pass an investigation? From what I hear most investigation committees don't do that good of a job and does the committee even get into stuff like being a member of Thelema? How would an investigation committee act, most Brothers have never heard of Thelema and OTO...

    Going into it even deeper Thelema could almost be considered clandestine Freemasonry, would we require them to leave OTO? Even if it is the religion, of the candidate?

    As more and more younger people who are interested in the esoteric groups that are available and the quest for Light, I imagine we will see candidate that are members of groups like Thelema and AMORC, do we have people who are knowledgeable in the areas to calm other Brothers when it is time to vote, or knowledgeable to inform other Brothers that a candidate is part of a group that we should not let into our organization.

    It just seems like we should have someone at GL that studies this stuff and reports on it somehow.

    I am sure there is a lot more running around in my head about this but for now that is all I can really think of..
     
  2. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    I was just reading the US Grand Lodge of OTO site and they state

    O.T.O. membership is not incompatible with membership in most Masonic organizations.

    I wonder if the most they mean are the Memphis and Misraim rites or Co-Masonry that we here would consider irregular and clandestine.
     
  3. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    I think all the other aside it comes down to:

    a believe in Supreme Being
    immortality of the soul

    I think like most things, we would have to take the mans word for the above, and if given treat them like any other candidate.
     
  4. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    I agree, but when a man is a member of an organization like this, if you have knowledge of the organization you wouldn't want that person in the Lodge.

    I know myself that I would greatly question the motives of a member of the O.T.O in petitioning, I also doubt they would let it be openly known they are O.T.O but there are things to look for...

    This is all hypothetical of course and the OTO is such a small group the chances of any one here actually running into this is extremely small.
     
  5. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Great Post.

    I don't see this as being incompatible with Masonry based on Masonic Law. None of the mentioned organizations claim any Masonic 'territory'. Yes they use a system of initiation , but this doesn't make them some clandestine form of Masonry.

    As for investigations, I've never asked a petitioner or heard a petitioner asked what his religion is. In fact I that would be inappropriate. The belief in a Supreme Being ,as understood by the individual, is necessary , in respect to religion.
     
  6. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    sounds like they are what I would consider Deists


    i'd also welcome them into lodge.

    great post, A7V
     
  7. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most, and this is just a personal moral issue is the fact they practice sex magick.

    It has a basis in the tantra's of Indian mysticism but still just freaks me out.

    Here is directly from Crowley what you should be learning at the higher degrees.

    * VIII°: masturbatory or autosexual magical techniques were taught, referred as the Lesser Work of Sol
    * IX°: heterosexual magical techniques were taught
    * XI°: anal intercourse techniques as sexual and magical were taught


    Crowley added these after he became head of the order.

    I am not sure if the OTO performs what is called "white' sex magick which is sex without orgasm or ejaculation.... Thus, instead of the sexual energy being released in a spasm, this energy undergoes sexual transmutation via willpower and the sacrifice of desire..

    Too each his own I guess.
     
  8. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    lol... for me, as long as they practice that at home and not in lodge, i'll be fine.
     
  9. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Agreed.
     
  10. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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  11. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I could definitely dig that. A man with that kind of knowledge would be welcomed by me.
     
  12. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Major overshare violation! 15 Yrd penalty and loss of down
     
  13. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    I would like to investigate the org a little more as an investigator but as far as not allowing them to join. All I am to ask is belief in god, immortality of the soul, and a belief in the holy scriptures. Now as far as the sex acts, I would have a tough time with this as well, I would have to learn more. I really don't know on this one, I guess it boils down to is this person a good person at heart and does he truely want to better him self and help others? If so who am I to tell him he is wrong. I mean there are a lot of different religions out there and I am by no way the tell them they are wrong. Good post Brother.
     
  14. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    OK since the taboo subject has been breached... time to lock an load!

    If sex practices could be used as a reason to not let a man in, what is everyones thougths on homosexual Masons? Is this an area that raises the same ignorance as does race?
     
  15. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    Honestly,

    I don't have a problem with it. I have more issues with the people that perform sex magick than I do with a practicing homosexual.
     
  16. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    No problem, I am not one to cast a stone. No sin is worse than another and I know I sin who am I to say that is worse than mine. I am not perfect so I will not require someone else to be. I just lok for men that have a good heart and want to better themselves. It is not for me to judge.
     
  17. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    Good answer, I expected that response from someone that has fought the racism issue also!
     
  18. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I have no problems with homosexuals being Masons either. That is really nobody's business but theirs. There is no "are you gay?" block on the petition to my knowledge.
     
  19. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    can you really become a better man if you are the wife of another man?

    that may sound like an asshole comment, but it's a genuine question. honestly, can you? it got me thinking what i thought about it.

    i've had my thoughts about a brother or two that i've met, and at the time, i didn't really have a problem with it.
     
  20. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I've had my thoughts confirmed about a Brother or two, and they bring quite a bit to the table. At the end of the day, it is a sexual preference, a little more extreme than whether you prefer blondes or brunettes. I don't see how an attraction has anything to do with being a better man, be that the "husband" or "wife" of the party.
     

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