Thomas Jefferson + Others

Discussion in 'The Refreshment Lounge' started by JTM, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    A lot of times you get people that frown on energized or even hostile groups. TJ, Sam Adams, John Adams, all thought this to be a necessity. So when I hear "Aggies don't do that" or something along those lines, I'm quick to remind them of a few of our past school presidents that went to Austin to kick ass and came back with bloody knuckles, not a moral victory.

    Now, am I saying that force is the answer to everything? No, but when you're right, and someone else is wrong, one of the most effective ways to get your point across is to carry that big stick without fear of having to use it, should the need arise. Also, I take pride in our history of violence and bloodshed to protect the freedoms that we *should* hold dearly.

    It applies to the nation as well:

    Thomas Jefforson:

    John Jay (first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court):

    and now for some of the more striking, forceful quotes:

    Patrick Henry:

    James Madison:

    John Adams:

    some of my favorite are from Sam Adams:

    and then the Big Billy Badass of the group, Nathan Hale:

    Wow. Meek does not begin to describe these guys. A peaceable solution to a threat of their liberty was not an option.

    Does this kind of post scare federal authorities? Damn right it does, it probably even scares a few people that read it. Good.

    We'll go back to TJ for the last one:

     
  2. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    John Adams also signed the first Sedition Act.

    My problem is the rhetoric of tyranny and liberty and freedom seems to apply to practically anything someone doesn't like these days - usually tax related, while many civil and human rights issues, or issues of checks and balances are ignored or encouraged. I'm talking about the public discussion on this.

    I think the words have been cheapened by the inflation of their use. In 50 years, people will think Hitler was a heavy taxer, or environmentalist the way people throw around his name.

    These quotes are largely like quoting the Old Testament, and only part of them. Eminent Domain, for instance, was in our fifth amendment, yet a Chief Justice appears to say there is no such thing.

    To take the very first quote means groups should start arming themselves. Liberals should have armed revolt when the GOP is in office and Conservatives should have armed revolt when a Democrat is in office.
    We would also have to assume that Jefferson always agreed with the policies supported by the taxes he paid - else he surely would have taken up arms and tried to abolish the government again.
     
  3. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    The issue most colonists had was not with the amount that was taxed, but the lack of representation. Technically, every MP in British govt represented every citizen, not just his region, so the british didn't see it that way. The colonists did because their voice wasn't heard.

    TJ didn't revolt against the new policies and taxes because he assuredly had a say in their creation.

    As for the context issue, if I had posted full speeches, nobody would have read them, so they got left out.

    The point of this was that if these guys were to exist today, they'd be seen as terrorists.
     
  4. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    And our democracy is still functional. So while the rest of society isn't obeying one part, everything we are experiencing is still a result of our democratic actions.


    But by his definition, *anything* he disagreed with was tyranny. While I agree he likely agreed with a lot. That's a LOT to agree with.


    I disagree. The full speech would be available.

    However, if only the quotes (as opposed to the speech and context) are what is acted upon - there would be armed revolt every other election if not all the time.

    TJ and others didn't act on their quotes, they acted on the full context of democracy.
     
  5. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    well sure, but they still carried a big stick and i doubt they would've been hesitant had the need arose.

    you don't immediately grab your gun at the first sign of not getting your way, but to not consider it if your liberties are infringed upon is foolish.
     
  6. drapetomaniac

    drapetomaniac Premium Member Premium Member

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    Sure, but my liberties are infringed upon every day.

    Monday, I counted the camera surveilling the streets as I drove 7 miles to work.
    4 intersections with 4 cameras each. (16 cameras)
    One camera pointed at a deceleration lane.
    3 cameras pointing the opposite direction, but monitoring I-35.

    I can't see boobs or hear swears on TV. I've paid for a crap load of policies I dont' support and salaries of people who either should have been in jail, or later actually did go to jail.

    I don't have to worry about picking up my gun, because so many people are constantly thinking about it. I've seen threads about revolution in multiple masonic forums - none about organizing democratic campaign of education and voting.
     
  7. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    actually that's something i'm working on now. getting a group of people together for lectures on civics, etc.
     
  8. Hippie19950

    Hippie19950 Premium Member

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    I gotta get a new chair and table in here... Drape has argued the legs off of them, and I've got a couple of fence posts that are leaning...
     
  9. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    okay, i laughed out loud. sorry drape :)
     

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