Traditional Observance Lodges

[BullDozer Harrell]

"I am excited about the current movement of the Craft back toward education and the study of the Craft’s more esoteric aspects. I hope we one day reach the goal of bringing Freemasonry back to a plane of practicing and conferring knowledge regarding man’s spiritual transcendence"
The Initiatic Experience by Robert Herd, pg 161, Kindle edition

I'm wondering about this so-called prior era of Masonry when Brothers practiced a conscious working of ritual? I haven't found any evidence that Masons from 1717 onwards have ever worked Masonic rituals in Regular Lodges that confer knowledge about our spiritual nature. Am i alone?

 

[Ripcord22A]

"I am excited about the current movement of the Craft back toward education and the study of the Craft’s more esoteric aspects. I hope we one day reach the goal of bringing Freemasonry back to a plane of practicing and conferring knowledge regarding man’s spiritual transcendence"
The Initiatic Experience by Robert Herd, pg 161, Kindle edition

I'm wondering about this so-called prior era of Masonry when Brothers practiced a conscious working of ritual? I haven't found any evidence that Masons from 1717 onwards have ever worked Masonic rituals in Regular Lodges that confer knowledge about our spiritual nature. Am i alone?

Every one of our rituals do. Its all in how you, the individual brother, interpret them. Im a member if s TO lodge, and having been Raised in a non TO lodge, participated in degrees in both TO and NON TO(from several jurisdictions) lodges i can tell you that TO lodges are much more rewarding!

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[Bloke]

.....I haven't found any evidence that Masons from 1717 onwards have ever worked Masonic rituals in Regular Lodges that confer knowledge about our spiritual nature. Am i alone?

Rituals vary, but I disagree. I think it's there, esp in our third degree, you get a veneer of it when you pass through the degree, but as time goes on, it becomes more evident. And important. But Freemasonry speaks to different people in different ways (and at different times); that's part of the beauty of it...

 

[chrmc]

"I am excited about the current movement of the Craft back toward education and the study of the Craft’s more esoteric aspects. I hope we one day reach the goal of bringing Freemasonry back to a plane of practicing and conferring knowledge regarding man’s spiritual transcendence"
The Initiatic Experience by Robert Herd, pg 161, Kindle edition

I'm wondering about this so-called prior era of Masonry when Brothers practiced a conscious working of ritual? I haven't found any evidence that Masons from 1717 onwards have ever worked Masonic rituals in Regular Lodges that confer knowledge about our spiritual nature. Am i alone?

I'll have to disagree as well. All of our rituals and traditions are symbols that transfer knowledge or a spiritual nature. I almost think it's hard to see it any other way, but would love to hear your viewpoint.

If you want to dig a layer deeper and start understanding the symbolism the books by Wilmhurst are a good place to start. The meaning of Masonry is an excellent read.

 

[Keith C]

Every one of our rituals do. Its all in how you, the individual brother, interpret them. Im a member if s TO lodge, and having been Raised in a non TO lodge, participated in degrees in both TO and NON TO(from several jurisdictions) lodges i can tell you that TO lodges are much more rewarding!

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May I ask what it is you find more rewarding?

There is a TO lodge not too far from me, one of two I am aware of in PA and I am curious about the differences but have not, as yet, reached out to them to visit. As we go Dark at the end of June in PA it will have to wait until the fall,

 

[Warrior1256]

Im a member if s TO lodge, and having been Raised in a non TO lodge, participated in degrees in both TO and NON TO(from several jurisdictions) lodges i can tell you that TO lodges are much more rewarding!

Could you give me a brief rundown on the differences in a traditional lodge and a TO?

I am curious about the differences

Same here.

 

[Ripcord22A]

May I ask what it is you find more rewarding?

There is a TO lodge not too far from me, one of two I am aware of in PA and I am curious about the differences but have not, as yet, reached out to them to visit. As we go Dark at the end of June in PA it will have to wait until the fall,

More focus on the esoteric and learning. Bills and all that crud is dealt with in committee so that meetings are all about the workings of the Craft. Dress code is tux or dark suit. We process in to lodge and then end every meeting with the chain of union. Our last meeting we had the DGM give a talk on Makeys rules of order...weve had talks on Satanism, Kabalah, weve had the Chief Adept of the NM Rosecrucian College give a talk on a paper he wrote called Piercing the Vale, it was about how man can "pierce the vale" between us and God! Its just amazing stuff!

I have a brother in NM that was raised in Lancaster lodge who was recently back in PA and went to a TO lodge there, I've reached out to him to get the name of the lodge for you...he told me that the experience there was Amazing!

But as with all things FreeMasonic....experiences WILL vary!

Edit: KITE AND KEY LODGE, ALLENTOWN PA

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[CLewey44]

May I ask what it is you find more rewarding?

There is a TO lodge not too far from me, one of two I am aware of in PA and I am curious about the differences but have not, as yet, reached out to them to visit. As we go Dark at the end of June in PA it will have to wait until the fall,

Bro. Keith, I'd go if I were you. Not saying your current lodge is not fulfilling but it's how masonry should always be imo.

 

[chrmc]

May I ask what it is you find more rewarding?

There is a TO lodge not too far from me, one of two I am aware of in PA and I am curious about the differences but have not, as yet, reached out to them to visit. As we go Dark at the end of June in PA it will have to wait until the fall,

I would say that with TO lodges you most often find a completely different approach to the Craft. Focus is much more on making it an initiatic experience focused on the candidate that is mean to transform his life through the degrees and education. TO lodges also often focus on higher standards in the ritual, dress and approach.
Some people like that and you should definitely check it out.

 

[Brother_Steve]

"I am excited about the current movement of the Craft back toward education and the study of the Craft’s more esoteric aspects. I hope we one day reach the goal of bringing Freemasonry back to a plane of practicing and conferring knowledge regarding man’s spiritual transcendence"
The Initiatic Experience by Robert Herd, pg 161, Kindle edition

I'm wondering about this so-called prior era of Masonry when Brothers practiced a conscious working of ritual? I haven't found any evidence that Masons from 1717 onwards have ever worked Masonic rituals in Regular Lodges that confer knowledge about our spiritual nature. Am i alone?

Explore when the two degrees of freemasonry became three. What was taught before the third degree came about? The seven liberal arts was the standard of education from medieval times to recent modern times. At first it was taught by the church in 'universities.' All the explanations for these sciences had Diety as their root.

Masons could have met in secret and possibly discussed scientific origins of such things. They met in secret because the punishment for teaching scientific origins could cost you your life. As an example people who started to question the firmament were burned at the stake. Galileo served out the rest of his life under house arrest after recanting his claims.

Think of the Royal Society and their embrace of science that disregarded religious reasons for what is. It had the political clout to not suffer the wrath of the church. Charles Darwin for example is buried at westminseter Abby because of political pull by the society.

Logic directs us how to form clear and distinct ideas of things....

Never stop learning. That was the underlying message I got from the degrees of freemasonry. (the 2nd is my favorite)

 

[Warrior1256]

More focus on the esoteric and learning. Bills and all that crud is dealt with in committee so that meetings are all about the workings of the Craft.

Sounds great!

 

[Bloke]

More focus on the esoteric and learning. Bills and all that crud is dealt with in committee so that meetings are all about the workings of the Craft. Dress code is tux or dark suit. We process in to lodge and then end every meeting with the chain of union. Our last meeting we had the DGM give a talk on Makeys rules of order...weve had talks on Satanism, Kabalah, weve had the Chief Adept of the NM Rosecrucian College give a talk on a paper he wrote called Piercing the Vale, it was about how man can "pierce the vale" between us and God! Its just amazing stuff!

I have a brother in NM that was raised in Lancaster lodge who was recently back in PA and went to a TO lodge there, I've reached out to him to get the name of the lodge for you...he told me that the experience there was Amazing!

But as with all things FreeMasonic....experiences WILL vary!

Edit: KITE AND KEY LODGE, ALLENTOWN PA

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Kite and Key...., Rip, if interested, I have detail on why the lodge was founded. The cool story I tell about the American Freemason who I swapped Master Mason pins with is now a PM of Kite and Key. He's promised to fly me to the States when he wins the lottery. I'm still waiting....

If readers want to know about TO Lodges, the Masonic Restoration Restoration society is a great resource
http://www.masonicrestorationfoundation.org/

 

[coachn]

Explore when the two degrees of freemasonry became three. What was taught before the third degree came about?

http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html

The seven liberal arts was the standard of education from medieval times to recent modern times. At first it was taught by the church in 'universities.' All the explanations for these sciences had Diety as their root.

Masons could have met in secret and possibly discussed scientific origins of such things. They met in secret because the punishment for teaching scientific origins could cost you your life. As an example people who started to question the firmament were burned at the stake. Galileo served out the rest of his life under house arrest after recanting his claims.

Think of the Royal Society and their embrace of science that disregarded religious reasons for what is. It had the political clout to not suffer the wrath of the church. Charles Darwin for example is buried at westminseter Abby because of political pull by the society.

Logic directs us how to form clear and distinct ideas of things....

Never stop learning. That was the underlying message I got from the degrees of freemasonry. (the 2nd is my favorite)

But whatever you do, don't ever assume that Freemason (that was created by the Grand Lodge Era; 1717-ish) is a continuation of the Stonecraft Masonry of much of its lore, lexicon and symbols is modeled after.

 

[Warrior1256]

But whatever you do, don't ever assume that Freemason (that was created by the Grand Lodge Era; 1717-ish) is a continuation of the Stonecraft Masonry of much of its lore, lexicon and symbols is modeled after.

Got it. Interesting stuff!

 

[coachn]

Got it. Interesting stuff!

Yep. And if you assume they are connected, you'll mislead yourself into believing a whole bunch of rubbish.

 

[Ripcord22A]

Kite and Key...., Rip, if interested, I have detail on why the lodge was founded. The cool story I tell about the American Freemason who I swapped Master Mason pins with is now a PM of Kite and Key. He's promised to fly me to the States when he wins the lottery. I'm still waiting....

If readers want to know about TO Lodges, the Masonic Restoration Restoration society is a great resource
http://www.masonicrestorationfoundation.org/

Small Masonic World. Ive got a couple pins for ya bro just gotta get around to sending them

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[Derek Harvey]

I'm fairly new to freemasonry. I'm a master mason. I don't know much yet. What is a TO lodge?

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[Derek Harvey]

Lol oh traditional observance .hence the title of the topic. Man what a blonde moment.

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[Bloke]

Lol oh traditional observance .hence the title of the topic. Man what a blonde moment.

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A TO seems a lot like our standard good lodge here, plus a bit more esotericia. A member of Kite and Key and I used to talk a lot and despite the fact he's gazillion miles away, i still think of him as a dear friend. When talking TO, America's often talk "European Concept Lodge" where the South (Festive Board) is very important, as is excellence in all things. Kent Henderson of Australia seemed to be often talked about in this conversation, esp for his lodge at Geelong, Lodge Epicurean.. .. but that was kinda just a duplicate of Lodge of the Golden Fleece (dinner cost x 4 x5 or x6 of a pub meal, expensive dues, orchestra in South, meets 6 times per year etc). Amicus is another such Lodge, and there is a new one from a few years ago, but not sure how its going..

The big discussions were all around the quality. Quality of
Food/South
Candidates
Officers
Ritual
Education
Programs.

Here, such lodges are often called "Dinning Lodges"... but many elements of what Americans call "European Lodges" are standard here in Australia .. a Dinning Lodge just tends to have really good food. They also tend to have good ritual, often because they're a second lodge and people, including MMs bring their experience gained in other lodges to the Dinning Lodge. Oh, Ladies in the South at all meetings... that's typical of these lodges
... not too sure where TO got too on that...

How often lodges should meet is often a big part of the discussion . We meet once a month, our Dinning Lodges often meet every 2 months, but that makes it hard to advance candidates. Normally, lodges meet here once per month. I've got no idea how lodges meeting weekly find the time to rehearse. My mother lodge went away this weekend and initiated a new Bro. We'd rehearsed twice for it over 2 evening representings about 5.5 hours rehearsing; I've got no idea how lodges meeting weekly would find the time to do that, but I guess like all things.... you just do it...

 

[Warrior1256]

Yep. And if you assume they are connected, you'll mislead yourself into believing a whole bunch of rubbish.

Wait a minute.....are you saying.......that we are not......descended from the Knights Templar????!!!!!!! (gasp)