UGLE Gender Policy

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Ripcord22A, Aug 1, 2018.

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  1. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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  2. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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  3. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Meh, I don't think it will really be an issue. The rare occasion that it does, it's not our business what formed between their legs in utero and what they had 'reassigned'. Progression will move forward. I can imagine the flack this will receive but it's such a non-issue, the UGLE is just trying to go with the times maybe and not seem what some may consider as bigoted. If they've went as far as to have the surgery, legally changed their name/sex/gender and they are a 'man' of good character, I don't really have a problem with it. That's just me though. I'd welcome them and treat them as such. I can't remember the exact verbiage but I don't think anywhere it says to be 'born a man' but just to 'be a man'. Could be wrong and some states may differ as well.
     
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  4. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    As it would be unlawful to not accept them based on gender if they are legally identified as male it’s a non issue theoretically speaking- however freemasonry in some countries especially have a track record of getting involved where they don’t belong.

    From the article this sentence is interesting;

    “A Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason“

    Really good progressive policy IMHO-
    Nice to see from UGLE.

    It’s all well and good to say it’s not my fight and so on but these are the struggles of our brothers and it’s not as uncommon as many think-
    Last thing we need is another court battle due to discrimination, it paints the craft in an awful light and detracts hugely from what we are about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  5. chrmc

    chrmc Registered User

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    That one is a tough one, and certainly a hot topic. To be honest I'm personally not that concerned about what people feel they are, or what they used to be, but I would say that if we're a mens only Fraternity, I would be in favor for only allowing people that are identifying as men (and what that then may mean, is a longer discussion).

    If you used to be a man, and have transitioned to a woman, I'd say that you could no longer be a member of the fraternity. And I would feel good with also saying that it would be treating the given person, in line with the gender they are / have become.

    But it's a touchy topic for sure. But not as far removed as it could be. We had a lodge in Texas that had a brother become a sister here within the last 2 years. The individual demitted so GL didn't have to become involved, and no official policy was made based on this case.
     
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  6. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This is pretty much my view.
    Absolutely!
     
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  7. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    When I was going through the line the first time in the 1990s similar happened in the LA metro area. She then petitioned the Amaranth. Once the grand level folks at the Amaranth learned that people vouching for her reporting knowing her since birth there was a gigantic negative reaction. Those signers had known him since birth and her since gender transition.

    No my circus. No my monkeys. Love the advice!

    I don't have either an accordion or the requisite perogies so I don't have a ten foot Pole to not touch this with. Whew.
     
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  8. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    So, for everyone saying 'not my circus, not my monkeys', what would your reaction be when a young woman shows up to your lodge with a UGLE dues card seeking admission?
     
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  9. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    LOL! I have already shared this one with about a half a dozen brothers as a back channel COACH'S CHALLENGE. Interesting spread of responses too!
     
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  10. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Personally I forwarded it to my GL rep and my secretary to ensure they knew about it-
     
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  11. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Good idea! I'll do the same.
     
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  12. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Many lodges have the right to reject a visitor. In Utah, any member can object.

    nb. no dues card in UGLE.
     
  13. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Due to my personal beliefs I think its absurd just like girls joining the "boy scouts". I dont believe this will go over too well at my lodge or any other PH lodge that I know of.
     
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  14. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    Perhaps you should look at that in yourself as this is the way masonry is going as shown by this policy, see if you can learn more about the people in your community to whom this is relevant if you arnt already learned of the community-
    People arnt flocking to masonry as it is-
    The last thing we need is to come across discriminatory.
     
  15. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    This is not the way Masonry is going. This is the way "One" GL is Choosing to go. Just because a group of people decide they want to go left and you want to go right doesnt mean you have to follow.
     
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  16. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    You are quite right but UGLE is not really just any grand lodge-
    You are entirely entitled to your opinion on the subject, I just hope its coming from a place of understanding and education on the subject-
    We have had public court cases where Freemasonry has come off bigoted- wouldn’t like to see more and beyond that if the law recognises their gender we arnt in a position to question that.
    It’s not a question of belief- it’s law.
     
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  17. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    We will have to agree to disagree. I see the UGLE as just a GL. They have no power over your GL or mine. I understand the history etc etc, but in the end of the day, I answer to my GL
     
  18. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I appreciate what you are saying and while officially you are correct but let’s be honest-
    Now that UGLE has addressed this it would be erroneous to think it won’t be addressed in time by other grand lodges-
    That said of course to think that all lodges under a grand lodge follow the policies as set would be justs as foolish as thinking just because racism is outside of policy means it dosnt happen.

    All we can do is push for the betterment of our lodges.
     
  19. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    It may be addressed, but that doesn't mean they will follow suit. The UGLE tomorrow can put out an edict stating "you no longer have to go through degress to be a freemason" extreme example, but you honestly think everyone would follow suit ? Maybe a few, but not all. Heck look at at the GL of AK. They do their own thing
     
  20. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    To be fair I don’t think you have to “go through” the degrees as it is in many US states but rather just watch them however when dealing with descimination law o don’t know that many GL would fight this, I bet most will simply ignore it and hope it’s never a problem.
    That said a few outliers don’t affect the overall trend this will bring.
     
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